[MD] 4 Mark - corrected.

[MarshaV]

Hi Mark,

Rather than patterns are what we create, I tend to understand there is an interdependency between value and consciousness (in all its many varieties.).

The definition that I am using is simply hypothetical:  supposed but not necessarily real or true.  Please note that there is no pointing towards an angst due to uncertainty.  I see uncertainty as a non-issue.
 

Marsha
 

On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:09 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Believe me; I am fully aware of what you are presenting.  My posts to you
> are directed towards what this "hypothetical” leads to in terms of your
> awareness.  I am fully in agreement in terms of human arrogance.  MOQ
> rectifies this by putting Quality as the first assumption.
> 
> 
> In the past I have presented the concept that: patterns are what we
> create.  Such patterns do not exist in and of themselves.  Knowledge is one
> example of these patterns.  That we create them does not fall within the
> bounds of the hypothetical.  The hypothetical implies that there is a True
> pattern.  When we build a house, the intention is not to approximate some
> underlying truth (at least for many of us, although Plato would
> disagree).  We build a house to have something to live in.  Metaphysics is
> no different.
> 
> 
> I believe that the nature of knowledge (as a creation, rather than a
> search) should be taught at early levels beginning in primary school.  This
> would stimulate the creative spirit we all have.  We, here in the forum,
> are high school graduates (hopefully).  We can even consider ourselves to
> be doing graduate work in MOQ.  What you present in terms of the
> hypothetical is a basis to move forward with.  The graduate work involves
> building on this hypothetical premise and seeing where it leads in terms of
> MOQ.  This is the subject on which I am always questioning you.  That you
> see everything as "not necessarily true" is fine, but how do you proceed
> from there in a philosophical manner?
> 
> 
> 
> I am happy that you find uncertainty in what you see, as enlightening to
> you.  But that is just a start.  This is metaphysics, which is the building
> of a view which others can share in.  Let us move on from you initial
> assumption and do some metaphysics, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to learn more about how seeing the world as Value leads to
> "expanded rationality".  Perhaps you can expand on that concept since I am
> not quite sure what you mean.  So far as I can tell, rationality does
> nothing but expand as we build it.  Are you speaking of a different kind of
> rationality, such as spiritual rationality?  If so, then we can discuss
> this in honest and trusting dialogue.
> 
> 
> 
> I find you to be a breath of fresh air in a sometimes arrogant dogmatic
> presentation of MOQ.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:09 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Correction...  Should be:
> 
> 
> I find it more useful to consider objects of knowledge (stuff in the
> encyclopedia) as 'static patterns of value' ("patterns") rather than
> 'truths'.  I think the term 'patterns' is a good representation.
> 
> I prefer to think of patterns as hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily
> real or true.)   Once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal that the
> world is nothing but Value, then 'expanded rationality' occurs when an
> individual transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into the
> natural tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical
> (supposed but not necessarily real or true.)  By using 'hypothetical' I
> think there is less of a tendency toward intellectual arrogance.
> Understanding static (patterned) value as hypothetical acknowledges the
> incompleteness of what we know and makes room for additional inquiry with
> new possibilities; it promotes an attitude of fearless curiosity: gumption.
> It moves one away from thinking of entities as existing inherently and
> independent of consciousness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
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