[MD] oldies but goodies

[118]

Hi Ron,
Thank you for your response.  What you write coincides with what I see as
one of the "purposes" of MOQ.  That purpose is to change the paradigm from
Truth to Excellence (or Quality).  Indeed, in this day and age we find
ourselves in a "dead" world where words have taken over the manner in which
we see things.  We believe we understand things through words, and once
things are understood, the dead end of SQ is reached.  Once this is done,
we then take such a thing for granted and move on.  It is this complacency
with even the simple that leads to a world devoid of Quality.

This is not our personal faults since the preponderance of our formal
education is dedicated to such training.  Because of this bewitchment, we
lose sight of what makes words meaningful.  If instead of searching words
for what they are saying, more effort can be put towards "how" the words
are saying it.  For this is where Arete lies in the written language.  What
words say is not as important as the image they create by how they are
saying it.  This is the battle between the dialectic and rhetoric brought
forth in ZAMM.  Since we live in a world of the printed word, most of what
lies behind the words is lost.  I am certain that if Pirisg read one of his
books to us, we would come away with new meaning.  The spoken word is much
much more powerful than the written word when it comes to Quality.

Arete can be considered from the point of view of "intention".  That is, by
examining what our intentions are in terms of what we do.  Again, this
intention is more important than what we do.  Within intention we find the
driving force of morality.  While we can consider such intention in its
human form, we can analogize intention to all things.  Free will is at the
core of such intention.  If everything has free will, then we can attribute
morality to everything as well.  Morality is a form of valuation in which
we consider the "right" or "best" thing to do.  So long as we always keep
this in mind, we are striving for Arete.  We all know what is right and
what is wrong, and this is the compass which guides us.

Regards,
Mark

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:32 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> [Mark had said]
> Hi Ron,
> hmmm... Underling ethical values are conflicting?  I assume you are
> speaking of Morality here.  What you are pointing to are conflicts in
> morality.
>
> This is an interesting topic since it relates directly to Lila.  What has
> Pirsig said about conflicts in morality and how these relate to a Moral
> sense of the "universe"?
>
> I would like to know how your statement refers to MOQ.  I assume this is
> why you brought it up.  Please explain what you mean philosophically by
> this.
>
>
> [Ron replies]
> I think you are close to my meaning, Pirsigs conception of the "true" is
> closely connected and associated with
> the ancient Greek Arete, excellence. He then points to the etymological
> root meaning being associated to art,
> and ritual. The Greek culture valued excellence and this is a key point to
> remember. The aim and goal of Pirsigs
> efforts are addressing a root cultural crisis, a crisis in that excellence
> has been lost to a post modern sceptical
> relativistic attitude that has become fashionable. To clarify in simple
> terms regarding ethical concerns, this is
> where the crisis is pointed out as a cultural paralysis due to the current
> trend of relativistic thinking. Nothing
> is true anymore, one's truth is as good as anothers truth and the
> deconstruction of truth and the art and practice
> of truth telling has become devalued to such an extent that it also
> deconstructs social patterns of value,
> A huge problem in which RMP's work is a reaction to it.
> When the question is asked," well then what is true?"
> we can re-frame it in terms of "what is excellent?"
> This is where there can be many answers, those attitudes which value the
> devaluation of excellence do so, or as
> it seems to me, to achieve a certain freedom from social constraints by
> asserting a certain individuality.
> RMP makes a few good arguements as to why moving towards that freedom by
> devaluing excellence
> has dire consequences.It SEEMS as if what is being moved towards is
> dynamic freedom but at the expense
> of undercutting social values.
> To conclude:
> The reason why there is such a reaction here to the devaluation of truth
> to hypothetical patterns relative
> to an inviduals history and are as good as the next individuals conception
> and values is that it promotes the very
> problem that it is reacting to. It conflicts with the central aim of the
> thesis.
>
> thnx
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:39 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [Dave H said]
> > Nice Highlight Ron.
> >
> > Marsha still dislikes precision…  There's a lot of great things in the
> world which are created by precision.  Technology comes to mind, but then
> also, Zen mysticism, you're right.  As I've said - a good mystic, like
> Steve Hagen, would know what DQ is and what it isn't.  To know the
> difference between the two however, requires care, attention to detail and
> precision. Not muddying of this distinction by claiming that everything is
> best seen as hypothetical rather than true.
> >
> > Isn't it amazing that there's someone on a philosophical discussion
> forum who doesn't like precision? I guess there's a philosophy for all
> types..
> >
> > [Ron replies]
> > I think it can be shown that THAT sort of skeptical relativism is a self
> refuting thesis but that is beside the point.
> > The underlying ethical attitudes are deeply conflicted.
> >
> >
> >
> > ..
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