[MD] social engagement

[118]

Hi Marsha,
Funny, I consider myself to be a castle builder.  I have presented many ways to be aware of Quality, and I'm not done yet!


Mark

On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> You are like a rogue wave that swishes upon beach to wash away all the castles in the sand: not his, not that.  And a minute later the wave, too, is gone.  
> 
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> p.s.  Perhaps if the Buddha had had a modern pen and notebook he would have kept a journal.   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 1:57 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Marsha,
>> Thanks for the link, I will give it a listen while I am driving to work.  I
>> do have a comment at the end of your post which may be of interest to you.
>> 
>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:00 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Greetings Mark and all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to say a few more words about this lecture because I want
>>> everyone to watch it for some important MoQ reasons.  In this talk, David
>>> Loy traces the intellectual concern for social justice, and the
>>> understanding that humans can restructure society to make it better, back
>>> to the Greeks, and makes it a fundamental of the West intellectual
>>> point-of-view.  He suggests that before that society was understood to be
>>> "the nature of things".  Loy seems to point to a clear division between the
>>> social level and the intellectual level which does not include "the East."
>>> I think the talk offers import considerations when defining the
>>> intellectual level and differentiating it from the social level, and also
>>> offers some strongly worded flaws in its development.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1e7Zysfkj0
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the title is self explanatory.  Rather than offer a synopsis,
>>> David Loy presented a bit of a quote by Gary Snyder written sixty years ago:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The mercy of the West has been social revolution; the mercy of the
>>> East has been individual insight into the basic self/void. We need both.
>>> They are both contained in the traditional three aspects of the Dharma
>>> path: wisdom (prajna), meditation (dhyana), and morality (sila). Wisdom is
>>> intuitive knowledge of the mind of love and clarity that lies beneath one’s
>>> ego-driven anxieties and aggressions. Meditation is going into the mind to
>>> see this for yourself — over and over again, until it becomes the mind you
>>> live in. Morality is bringing it back out in the way you live, through
>>> personal example and responsible action, ultimately toward the true
>>> community of “all beings.”"
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha
>>> 
>>> Since in this forum we are discussing a metaphysics devoted to Quality, I
>> thought I would try to draw some relationship between your quote and MOQ.
>> 
>> If we take a view through the thought pattern which encompasses the Dharma
>> path as presented above, I believe there are some connections.  The way I
>> have been trying to explain Truth is similar to "wisdom".  This would be
>> the intuitive knowledge that presents a place from which we can start our
>> patterning.  Meditation is akin to SQ, in that we create patterns through
>> thought.  That is, we "see" something.
>> 
>> "Going into the mind" does not make sense to me from a Quality perspective,
>> since this creates a separation between "one who is going in", and "the
>> mind".  I am not sure how one separates the two.
>> 
>> As we know, Morality is not simply a human endeavor, but something that is
>> inherent in everything.  As humans, we express the "human variety" of
>> Morality.  At its core, this expression is no different to a photon's.  By
>> "by bringing it back out" we have the permutations of DQ, as it happens.
>> 
>> As we know, Pirsig did not try to encapsulate the great body of work
>> devoted to Zen.  But he does present parallels between his Quality, and the
>> Zen tradition.  More so in ZAMM than in Lila, the latter being one which
>> tries to explain Quality using standard Western modes of inquiry.  In the
>> East there is little class movement, except that which is Western in
>> tradition.  At the begining of the video (all I have watched so far, the
>> speaker seems positive about the mixing of both traditions.  He would claim
>> that a better mixing would happen if the East came West, rather than the
>> West going East.  Presumably due to cultural values.  The implication is
>> that the West is ready for change much more than the East.
>> 
>> In the West, we tend to divorce ourselves from the natural flow of
>> existence by creating huge amounts of Static Quality.  As I have presented
>> previously, the written word is highly static and bewitching.  The spoken
>> word is entirely different.  Our society seems to be going faster into the
>> dominance of the written word.  What is being lost are the traditional
>> face-to-face engagements which used to dominate a society.  Because of
>> this, society is becoming devoid of personality, texting is replacing
>> talking.  Many people feel more comfortable texting or discussing things
>> via computer than talking face-to-face.
>> 
>> Here we have two computers talking to each other.  There is no affect to
>> the written word except what the reader puts into it.  There is no
>> intonation which makes up 75% of a conversation.  This leads to
>> misunderstanding as we see so often in this forum.  The written word has
>> brought us into an increasingly static state, where we present quotes
>> without affect.  Depending on how the author said the quote, makes all the
>> difference.  This is why watching a speaker is infinitely more educational
>> than reading a writer.  I wonder what Buddhism would bring to this dilemma.
>> As  you know Buddha refused to write anything down, and for good reason
>> (of course Socrates and Jesus did the same thing).
>> 
>> I am curious how you see the video relating to MOQ.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> 
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