[MD] “An Overview of the MOQ by Robert Pirsig” Transcript

[Dan Glover]

Cool stuff, Anthony! Thanks for sharing it with us

Dan

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> For anyone interested here's some useful notes that Henry Gurr has sent to
> me about the recently published "An Overview of the MOQ by Robert Pirsig"
> transcript largely icw how the brain works:
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 18:54:52 -0400
> Subject: Now a Physics Theory supports Pirsig' saying: Quality is not just
> some abstraction; it's something that guides your life every minute of
> every second [of every day] even though you do not intellectually recognize
> that it is so.
> From: henrysgurr at gmail.com
> To: Dr Anthony McWatt et al
>
>
> Dear ZMM Enthusiasts:
>
> At the end of this email thread, you will see  Anthony McWatt's,
> announcement  of his recent posting of (with link to) his just transcribed,
> Robert Pirsig Interview from  =>
>
> "The film (which is the third one featured on the 'The MOQ at Oxford' DVD)
> originally appeared at the MOQ Study Day held at Oxford University in
> October 2009."
>
> I congratulate Dr McWatt for doing this, since this is a very important
> document, which everyone
> should study and take to heart!!! In this reading, you will see that
> Pirsig's words there, are an excellent. well focused, summary of the
> essence of both of his books: ZMM and Lila!! Here Pirsig gives us some very
> practical messages, really a theory, for guiding our every action, and
> ultimately our life!!
>
> To help you get started, I show at A) below, the portion of Anthony's
> transcript the part where Pirsig discusses just how "BETTER".... comes into
> daily  actions .... each moment ... leading to the next moment:
>
> In reading Pirsig's words, you will see how he amplifies the following:
>
> "Quality is not just some abstraction; it's something that guides your
> life every minute of every second [of every day] even though you do not
> intellectually recognize that it is so. .... "
>
> *******
>
> This passage  really gets my attention because, there is a VERY GOOD
> PHYSICS THEORY, that says: :
>
> Pirsig's message is an intrinsic consequence of how our brain works!!
>
> Our brain is a biological mechanism to seek "the best" line of action, for
> whatever
> situation is encountered.  (Here you should recognize that each new
> situation, is really " a problem to be solved"!)... as Pirsig says " every
> minute of every second [of every day]" !!!
>
>
> ****************************************************************
>
>
> AND all the more so, because (as I recently realized) this PHYSICS THEORY
> of BRAIN operation,
> shows FACTUAL REASONS  for the LITERAL TRUTH of what Pirsig says!!  (IE,
> what Pirsig says: 1) In Anthony's transcribed interview, 2)In what he
> specifically states (or implies) through-out ZMM and Lila.
>
> In case I've peaked your interest, I provide at B) below, the abstract of
> my recent talk, about this very topic!! To learn more, click on the link
> next down, to read my paper  "Memory, Perception,& Problem Solving --
> AHA!!!, which discusses Princeton's Physics Professor J J Hopfield's
> theory, as well as my discussion how this all fits together.
>
> These ideas propose an exceedingly important conclusion how our brain does
> its work!! Moreover, I
> believe  these ideas are the leading edge of yet another "Copernican
>  Inversion, to use Pirsig's words in ZMM (in Chap. 11, p.119 Re: High
> Country of Mind, overview of philosophers.)
>
> I hope I am not being too egotistical, but all this seems to me to be of
> equivalent importance, to that of say Copernicus, Kepler, Darwin, or
> Newton. YES... a new Copernican Inversion, that broadly supports Robert
> Pirsig's... BETTER!!
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Henry Gurr
>
>
> ************************************
>
>
> PS: Anthony says at end of his email (pasted below):
>
> "I did completely re-edit the film for MSU but, on reviewing the two
> versions, I realised the first one was actually better.  A case of knowing
> - as an artist - when to make that 'final mark on the canvas'!!.."
>
> Yes indeed!!  Pirsig, in the interview makes the point this way, quoting
> Robert Redford: " ... "That's how I make my films!" Well, I don't know what
> I'm going to do [either], I just have to see what has Quality. If it has
> Quality then I'll do it. If it doesn't have Quality, I won't
> do it. If I look at it a week later and I see it doesn't have Quality,
> I'll throw
> it out. If I suddenly, in the middle of the night say, think of something
> better, I'll put that in. "
>
>
> PSS: This reminds me of Frank Lloyd Wright's statement:
>
> "The Architect's two best friends are the eraser and the sledge hammer."
> Meaning, that if you see better, immediately replace  the not so good!! And
> don't fret over the the work it took to make the previous!"
>
> [N.B. Lloyd Wright is one of my favourite architects.  It doesn't surprize
> me that he said this - Anthony]
>
>
>
> ****Supplementary Reading, As Mentioned Above***
>
>
>
> A) An Excerpt from Anthony's "An Overview of the MOQ"by Robert Pirsig
> transcript :
>
> "There is an opening line in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance":
>
> "And what is good Phaedrus And what is not good - Need we ask anyone to
> tell us these things?" R.Pirsig in ____
>
> And, of course the answer is "No!" Everybody knows what Quality is. You
> can't take a step forward without deciding that step is better than
> standing where you were. You can't take a meal without feeling it'd be
> better to eat than not to eat and you can't go upstairs without deciding
> that it will be better to go upstairs... and so on. And so Quality is not
> just some abstraction; it's something that guides your life every minute of
> every second [of every day] even though you do not intellectually recognize
> that it is so.
>
> So, I found that certain people know this automatically and they are
> usually skilled artists. When you're trying to create a painting or a piece
> of music you've got to have this feeling of what's better. And just this
> feeling of what is better immediately will guide to whatever you want to
> do. If you base what you are trying to create on what's been done before
> you are going to get an imitation of something done before. But if you want
> to do something new you can't look to the past, you can only look to this
> empty Dynamic thing that is coming at you and say "Oh yeah, I'll do that!"
> you know... and put that in. And then it works.
>
> Artists sometimes say: "He's got it!". They mean, he is hooked on to that
> Dynamic thread that pulls
> them forward into their art world. And people who don't understand that
> look at their art and say: "Now I wonder how he managed to create that
> thing?" Well, he doesn't know either; he just knows that something in his
> consciousness (or something ahead of him) told him to go that way.
>
> I've talked with many artists, including Robert Redford interestingly
> enough and he said "That's how I make my films!" Well, I don't know what
> I'm going to do [either], I just have to see what has
> Quality. If it has Quality then I'll do it. If it doesn't have Quality, I
> won't do it. If I look at it a week later and I see it doesn't have
> Quality, I'll throw it out. If I suddenly, in the middle of the night say,
> think of something better, I'll put that in.
>
>
> *****************
>
>
> B) ABSTRACT OF MY TALK GIVEN AT THE South Atlantic Coast
> Section, American Association of Physics Teachers, Spring 2013 Meeting at
> the
> University of North Georgia-Gainesville (formerly Gainesville State
> College), GA;
>
> April 5,6 2013:
>
>
> The Human Mind As General Problem Solver, Is Observed To Find "Best"
> Solutions, That Correspond
> To Highest Mental Coherence: This Talk, Continuing Previous, Will Present
> More Applications of Hopfield"s Mathematical Model of the Mammalian Brain.
>
> Henry Gurr, University of South Carolina Aiken,
>
> HenryG at usca.edu
>
>
> Princeton Physicist J. J. Hopfield's Mathematical Model of the Mammalian
> Brain,  says our brain Work for Memory, Perception, Language, Thinking,
> etc, (Even the AHA-EUREKA-Flash Of Insight Type Problem Solving) is
> achieved by our massively inter-connected CNS Neurons... Working together...
>
> MINIMIZING an analog of physical energy, thus yielding Optimal Solutions:
> These "best" answers, correspond to highest mental coherence, (and in
> physics language "least action"), for most facets organism response, be it
> mental (eg: perception, memory, speaking, ideas, etc) or physical(muscular
> actions, trail following, tool using, etc).
>
> Robert Pirsig's book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", applies
> here:
>
> "Working on a motorcycle, working well, caring, is to become part of a
> process, to achieve an inner peace of mind. [Which comes from Optimal
> Solutions; These "best" answers!!}  The motorcycle is primarily a mental
> phenomenon." ... "The cycle you're working on is a cycle called "yourself."
> [Here think Hopfield Model!]
>
> Physical Chemist, Michael Polanyi's "Personal Knowledge" is also relevant
> here.
>
> Conclusion:" If the shoe fits", then continue investigations, such as:
> search for supporting
> data, more observations, and authors.
>
>
>
> Footnotes:
>
> **Hopfield's Mammalian Brain was modeled after, and is similar to his,
> Solid State Physics Model (& Theory) for Spin Glass, called Isig Glass .
> More at link below.
>
> ***Above in [brackets], was added for this document.
>
>
>
> *****************
>
>
> My paper "Memory, Perception, Insight, & Problem
> Solving -- AHA!!! --   :
>
> NOTE: There are a series of cartoons, puzzles, and jokes, but do NOT look
> at these first, or you
> will miss the point!!
>
> Click here:
>
> www.usca.edu/math/~mathdept/hsg/MemoryPerception&ProblemSolving.html
>
>
>
> *****************
>
>
>
> From: Ant McWatt [antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk]
>
> Subject: Re: "An Overview of the MOQ by Robert Pirsig" Transcript
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am pleased to announce that the complete and definitive transcript of
> the short film "An Overview of the MOQ by Robert Pirsig" has now been
> uploaded at:
>
>
> http://www.robertpirsig.org/Pirsig%202009%20Transcript%20on%20MOQ%20at%20Oxford.htm
>
>
> Many thanks to Andre Broersen who initially transcribed a rough copy of
> the film; this is especially appreciated as, of course, Andre's first
> language is not English!
>
>
> The film (which is the third one featured on the "The MOQ at Oxford" DVD)
> originally appeared at the MOQ Study Day held at Oxford University in
> October 2009. It was given a second screening at the MSU Chautauqua last
> December and was also warmly received there
>
>
> Finally, talking of Oxford and Art, look out for the book on the MOQ and
> Art by Patrick Doorly (the organiser of the MOQ Study Day) which is due to
> be published soon.  For what
> it's worth, I think it could be a real intellectual turning point...
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Anthony McWatt
>
>
> (site administrator)
>
> robertpirsig.org
>
>
>
> ************** END ***************
>
>
>
> .
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