[MD] SOM & the MOQ's four levels

[David Harding]

Awesome! So you'll use a clarifier now Dan?

On 05/05/2013, at 2:25 PM, Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone
> 
> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Dan G said to Ron, Arlo, DMB et al, May 4th 2013:
>> 
>>> Experience is pre-conceptual. That is why there is always a lag between
>>> experience and recognition. Dr. Gurr seems to go into this a bit in the
>>> paper that Ant shared. William James also goes into this, which RMP
>> quotes
>>> in Lila. Experience and our conception of experience are never identical.
>>> Once we have pigeon-holed experience into categories it is no longer
>>> experience. It becomes a memory of experience, or in the MOQ, static
>>> quality.
>> 
>> 
>> Ant McWatt comments:
>> 
>> Dan,
>> 
>> Just a small refinement but I think it would be clearer if you added the
>> prefix "pure" to the word experience in the above paragraph as static
>> quality patterns are a form of experience too (though a type of
>> conceptualised/patterned experience)!
>> 
> 
> Hey Ant,
> 
> I think it depends on how we are using the term 'experience.' I received an
> email from Paul Turner a few months back which might help explain where I
> am coming from:
> 
>> Sept 2004
>> 
>> Turner: Is experience synonymous with Dynamic Quality, or is experience
> both
>> Dynamic and static quality?
>> 
>> Pirsig: Both, but it's also an SOM word that implies an experiencer and
>> thing experienced, so it's not the best word to use within the MOQ.
>> 
>> Past experience is always static. Present experience, within the
> microsecond
>> it is experienced before thought takes place, is always Dynamic.
> 
> Dan comments:
> If we use the term 'experience' in the context of the MOQ, then qualifiers
> like 'direct' and 'present' and 'past' become unnecessary accoutrements.
> But I do understand the need to qualify the term if we are dealing from a
> subject/object point of view.
> 
> 
>> Ant:
>> e.g
>> 
>> "Pure experience (i.e. unpatterned Quality/Dynamic Quality) is
>> pre-conceptual.  That is why there is always a lag between pure experience
>> and recognition...."
>> 
> 
> Dan:
> I have no problem with this, especially for the sake of clarity when
> writing to an SOM audience. Like here! :-)
> 
> 
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Ant
>> 
> 
> Thank, Ant. Always good to hear from you.
> 
> Dan
> 
> http://www.danglover.com
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