[MD] Independent reality?

[Horse]

What the fuck is this Adrie?

Horse

On 27/05/2013 10:25, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote:
> Greetings Adrie.
>
> Congratulations with your improved English/American, you sound like
> a genuine native and also, in this post at least,  air some interesting
> thoughts about the MOQ.
>
>> Pirsig played with the idea that we are in need of a fift level, the
>> quantum level probably, but was doubting it at the same time. He is
>> a writer, not a theorethical physicist.
> I think it was an "art" level or "code" beyond intellect Pirsig spoke
> about. The quantum level below the inorganic was the pet of one Doug
> Renselle in the very first months  of the  - then - Lila Squad. Before
> DMB had begun his destruction of the MOQ with his Jamesian
> "Conceptual" nonsense.
>
>> And of course , do we have to understand the fifth level on top of
>> the pyramid,inorganic , organic, biological,etc....or determining
>> the foundations of the pyramid, simply to begin with, as a level
>> before the inorganic?-----quality emerging from chaos?..... in this
>> sense, the provided article from the first link is showing a glimpse
>> of order emerging from chaos on a quantum-level.
> Of course there is a meta-level on top, below and surrounding, not
> only the static levels, but the complete DQ/SQ system, namely the
> MOQ. This is what Pirsig meant by "No one can avoid metaphysics"
> before he lost heart and lapsed back in SOM with the MOQ a menu
> about the Quality food "out there". Quality and the MOQ are
> synonymous.
>
> Compare it to SOM. While it ruled it being a meta-system was hidden -
> everyone thought the S/O was reality itself - but with Pirsig
> revealing its true nature as a meta-system, the spell was broken. Now
> we see that SOM is neither subjective nor objective but a meta-level s
> surrounding the S/O dualism. Likewise MOQ is neither dynamic nor
> static but the meta-level surrounding or containing the DQ/SQ dualism.
>
>
> DMB's - and the latter-day Pirsig's - fallacy is to make the MOQ an
> intellectual pattern. Completely insane, intellect is a MOQ pattern and
> for it to be contained by a subset of its own is impossible according to
> Pirsig's own container logic. Anyway,  insisting on an "expansion of
> intellect" makes the 4th  a mental, mind-like level and Pirsig has
> managed to "knock down the MOQ". Something he said was
> impossible (in LILA) but now he has managed  to do  himself.
>
> OK, I doubt you will have DMB's ear regarding this issue and - NB! -
> this meta-level isn't any 5th static - nor is it dynamic - but the DQ/SQ
> configuration itself. Unless we see the MOQ as reality, all taes place in
> "intellect" and that's indistinguishable from SOM.
>
> Bodvar
>
>
>
> from Skutvik at online.no to Adrie
> relayed to moqtalk.org
>
>
> Please stay on the current issue's or fade away with your dada's.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/5/27 <skutvik at online.no>
>
>> Greetings Adrie.
>>
>> Congratulations with your improved English/American, you sound like
>> a genuine native and also, in this post at least,  air some interesting
>> thoughts about the MOQ.
>>
>>> Pirsig played with the idea that we are in need of a fift level, the
>>> quantum level probably, but was doubting it at the same time. He is
>>> a writer, not a theorethical physicist.
>> I think it was an "art" level or "code" beyond intellect Pirsig spoke
>> about. The quantum level below the inorganic was the pet of one Doug
>> Renselle in the very first months  of the  - then - Lila Squad. Before
>> DMB had begun his destruction of the MOQ with his Jamesian
>> "Conceptual" nonsense.
>>
>>> And of course , do we have to understand the fifth level on top of
>>> the pyramid,inorganic , organic, biological,etc....or determining
>>> the foundations of the pyramid, simply to begin with, as a level
>>> before the inorganic?-----quality emerging from chaos?..... in this
>>> sense, the provided article from the first link is showing a glimpse
>>> of order emerging from chaos on a quantum-level.
>> Of course there is a meta-level on top, below and surrounding, not
>> only the static levels, but the complete DQ/SQ system, namely the
>> MOQ. This is what Pirsig meant by "No one can avoid metaphysics"
>> before he lost heart and lapsed back in SOM with the MOQ a menu
>> about the Quality food "out there". Quality and the MOQ are
>> synonymous.
>>
>> Compare it to SOM. While it ruled it being a meta-system was hidden -
>> everyone thought the S/O was reality itself - but with Pirsig
>> revealing its true nature as a meta-system, the spell was broken. Now
>> we see that SOM is neither subjective nor objective but a meta-level s
>> surrounding the S/O dualism. Likewise MOQ is neither dynamic nor
>> static but the meta-level surrounding or containing the DQ/SQ dualism.
>>
>>
>> DMB's - and the latter-day Pirsig's - fallacy is to make the MOQ an
>> intellectual pattern. Completely insane, intellect is a MOQ pattern and
>> for it to be contained by a subset of its own is impossible according to
>> Pirsig's own container logic. Anyway,  insisting on an "expansion of
>> intellect" makes the 4th  a mental, mind-like level and Pirsig has
>> managed to "knock down the MOQ". Something he said was
>> impossible (in LILA) but now he has managed  to do  himself.
>>
>> OK, I doubt you will have DMB's ear regarding this issue and - NB! -
>> this meta-level isn't any 5th static - nor is it dynamic - but the DQ/SQ
>> configuration itself. Unless we see the MOQ as reality, all taes place in
>> "intellect" and that's indistinguishable from SOM.
>>
>> Bodvar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------- End of forwarded message -------
>>
>
>

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