[MD] Static Patterns Rock!

[Andre]

Marsha to Andre and dmb:
The static world is not an illusion, the static world is like an 
illusion. ...All conceptions and mental images that "atomic bombs that 
dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki" might signify are a counterfeit of 
the actual event. It is in this understanding that I say it is "like" an 
illusion.

Andre:
Ah...we have another word from Lucy's vocabulary and thereby employed 
tactics: 'counterfeit'.

Let's have a look: Counterfeit:1: 'made in imitation; not genuine, 
forged 2: pretended, imitate fraudulently...simulate. (This is from the 
Oxford Concise.)

She further writes that:It is in this understanding that I say it is 
"like" an illusion.

This makes it only worse in my book. This is gravely worse than the 
genuine Buddhist interpretation and shows how Marsha doesn't understand 
either position... and is actually devoid of any intellectual 
understanding at all. It is at the most social but more grounded in the 
biological sphere. But she doesn't understand that either.

What Marsha in effect is saying, in answer to the question Pirsig asked 
of his professor in Benares, is the same as the professor's: The 
professor smiled and said 'Yes'.

Marsha says 'Yes, it is an imitation, pretended, not genuine, 
forged...fraudulent.

Andre:
I'll repeat what I said before (which was one of your defining 
characteristics of something being 'real' or not):

Because you did not have 'direct experience' of it? Bloody hell! Those 
that DID directly experience it are DEAD, Lucy. In your warped and 
bigoted way of reasoning those few that survived came close but did not 
have the same direct experience did they? So what do they know eh? And 
what did they leave behind for us?What do they know anyway?

What you are in effect saying to the survivors of all of the atrocities 
mentioned before is that it is all an imitation. It's all pretended. It 
is not genuine...it is forged...fraudulent.


I am absolutely sick to the stomach of this pattern of argumentation. We 
are asked to sit at a table and discuss Pirsig's MoQ. Instead I am 
confronted with someone who sees all the atrocities committed in the 
twentieth century (and they continue to this day) as an imitation, 
pretended, not genuine, forged...fraudulent.

The undermining of the MoQ by this particular set of patterns 
continuously for the past seven or eight year or so is still apparently 
tolerated. I have always had difficulty accepting immoral acts whenever 
I experienced them (even at a very young age when I did not quite 
understand what was going on). But there you have it. Following your 
intuition is not always wrong.

I will un-subscribe and wish genuine MoQ'ers well.