[MD] [LS:9743] The social level.

[ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR]

[As Bo has refused to stop hounding my personal email, I thought I'd make this response public.]

I have to admit, Bo. Even I was surprised by your tenacious need for recognition and ego-stroking. How else, I thought, could one explain that this person keeps emailing me repeatedly after I've asked him many, many times (and very politely as well) to refrain. Certainly, I thought, he gets off on wanting to imagine himself "one-upping" others, maybe I should be flattered that he so obviously needs my attention.

And then I went to Google groups and read the the posts to LilaSquad.

Good... fucking... god.

No wonder you want so badly to interact with us. What a bunch of incoherent, unintelligible, and outright moronic nonsense. The majority of contributors appear to be schizophrenics who've gone off their lithium. I am not exaggerating here... Horse and DMB (anyone else with a functioning frontal lobe), if you haven't you simply must check this out: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lilasquad

I feel bad for you, Bo. As unsophisticated as your understanding of the MOQ always has been, at least you are mostly semi-intelligible to read. As for the "true MOQers" who are following you, well, I think this "caliber" of acolyte should alert you to the "quality" of your ideas. Sad. Really, just sad.

I'm not going to humor you by trying to address all your mistakes in your post. You would not genuinely read that anyway. You would do what you've always done, read only so that you prop yourself up as a messiah of sorts. What you want is a soapbox. What you have is a court of fools. Congratulations.

I'll end this simply with another beg to stop being contacted. If you really need attention this badly, consider hiring a prostitute. 



----- Original Message -----
From: skutvik at online.no
To: lilasquad at googlegroups.com
Cc: "<ajb102 at psu.edu> <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> <horse at darkstar.uk.net>" <daneglover at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:28:12 AM
Subject: Re: [LS:9743] The social level.

John
Regarding the "Sociability re-examined" thread at the MD. Sorry to
have gotten you into trouble by saying that you had the "3rd level =
Religion" from me. However you corrected it and I accept that you had
harbored that from before. From now I act as if I participate in the MD
discussion.

The MD seems like a contest of non-MOQ-ishness and when true
quality inputs are made they act like a disturbed hornet's nest. You
referred to an interview (Baggini) where Pirsig say that in a sense
everything is social and Dan asked you to where exactly he says so.
One just have to go to Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner (2003) .

    There has been a tendency to extend the meaning of "social" down into the
    biological with the assertion that, for example, ants are social, but I
    have argued that this extends the meaning to a point where it is useless
    for classification. I said that even atoms can be called societies of
    electrons and protons. And since everything is thus social, why even have
    the word?

B:
However the term "religion" make the lesser minds like Horse go "to
church".:

Horse to JC:
> No it's not - religion is a social pattern, not the Social level. Don't be
> silly!

Then the "mastermind" Arlo:
> Of course its a very sophomoric idea. And here's the context behind it. Bo
> (who apparently still monitors MD) sent me an email that read, in part,
> "About "religion" as the social definition is something John has from me,
> but he omitted my reservations and qualifications." So now you know where
> this is originating. Whatever other deductions you make from this are up
> to you.

Bo:
See if Bo (who has saved the MOQ from DMB's travesty) is behind it,
it's like poking the proverbial "hornet's nest".

Then the ûber-mastermind" DMB:
> Yes, a very sophomoric idea and a conspicuously self-serving idea too.
> It's not just a gross distortion to equate religion with the social level,
> it's not even true that all religion is social. The MOQ is a religion is
> some sense and yet it is intellectual.

Nonsense, the MOQ isn't social in any sense. The 3rd level's essence
is the notion of an afterlife and the myriad fall-outs (patterns)  from that
notion ... of which monotheist religions are rather late patterns. The
mentioned notion of an afterlife came along with human beings and
language which I believe also came along with Homo becoming
Sapient, meaning that the social level's (biological) "building bock" is
the human organism with its big brain and language.

DMB:
> The MOQ does not oppose religion per se but rather opposes the
> assertion of social level values (from social level religions) over
> intellectual values. And of course this is a real-world problem, as in
> the case where creationism is taught in science classes along side of
> instead of the theory of evolution or the cases where our rights are
> subverted or distorted by traditional forms of bigotry and oppression.

B:
Elementary Dr Buchanan, but I can't see the relevance.

DMB:
> I mean, traditional religions are full of super creepy nonsense about
> how to treat slaves, how to beat your children, and how to destroy
> those other guys who don't worship the right God. Traditional religion
> is morally outrageous, cruel, hateful and childish. John wants us to
> think that this stomach-turning creepiness is normal, natural and good.
> I find it impossible to respect such views, especially as we sit here
> in the wake of the latest Islamic beheading and the lethal bigotry of
> our police forces. This kind of ignorance has to be eradicated or we
> are totally fucked.

B:
Well, this is "the traditional religion" that I warned against identifying
solely as social value, particularly Islam which is to social value what
SOM is to the intellectual - its ultimate stronghold that intellect
seemingly has no impact on (SOM on the other hand is what MOQ
has such trouble overcoming because it (SOM) has infected the
quasi-moq that DMB peddles), But notice the MOQ tenet that the lower
level is the evil of the upper, and by going so strongly against it DMB
reveals that he looks on things from intellect's p.o.v. NOT from MOQ's
About this LILA says:

    "One reason why fundamentalist Moslem cultures have
    become so fanatic in their hatred of the West is that it has
    released the biological forces of evil that Islam has fought for
    centuries to control".

The social level was - and still is - a moral step up from biological
value, yet now looks like sheer evil from intellect's haughty stance. and 
again -  the MD pundits seem to be intellect's henchmen. Most telling .

Bo


PS
I don't think DMB, Arlo and the administrator will have "peace in their
time" The quasi-moq is useless and the true MOQ is pressing on, I
spot a certain "mutiny" at times from quarters I better not mention