[MD] Sociopathy (wasRe: Step Two)

[david]

Jan-Anders said to John:


I am just curious about our picture of the evolution seen through the MOQ magnifying glass. RMP says it began with level 1 the inorganic a while ago. Was the social level then? No. Is the social level present now? Yes. Well somewhere in between was the step. When or what was the start?



dmb says:

I see at least two major misconceptions here, Jan-Anders. I see two slightly different kinds of misreadings of the NATURE of the levels.

1.) It's true that the MOQ's levels are presented as an evolutionary hierarchy so that each level is a distinct stage or phase of evolutionary development - but it does not promise and cannot offer the kind of magnifying glass you seek. It isn't just Pirsig who says it began with the inorganic a while ago but also today's scientists, science books, and any decent encyclopedia. Pirsig isn't telling us what reality is made of but rather offering a better way to think about our common body of knowledge. This hierarchy ought not be taken too literally or even as a form of realism. All the things Pirsig said in ZAMM about our reality being a giant web of inherited analogies, as something we have created, still obtains in Lila. The first kind of misreading I see, then, is mistaking the MOQ's categories and concepts for actual existential realities. You're reading it as a kind of naive realist, which is very far from Pirsig's view. 


2.) The second kind of misreading is much simpler. As I see it, you're basically asking the MOQ to tell us when, where, and how life began. (When or what was the start of step two?) The MOQ cannot answer such a question. It's a scientific question but it's hard to imagine how empirical science could get at such a remotely ancient event. It's hard to see how we could ever do anything more than speculate. It seems that many of the questions about the transitions between levels are simply scientific questions and we can look at their data and see how it fits in - or not. Arlo's recent attempts are a good example of that. I think there are some very interesting studies in primate morality that show us where our own social level morality comes from. You can see the seeds of it in the behavior of our closest primate cousins and even a little bit in rats. But these are empirical questions that can only rightly be answered by research out in the fields and labs.