[MD] MOQ is good. What is it good for? (Andre Broersen)

[T-REXX Techs]

Andre,
You continue to show yourself to be a man of good heart and good will.  I
sincerely appreciate your caring enough to help correct and heal my
misconceptions and misapplications of MOQ.  I felt frustrated because I knew
that Pirsig's insights in LILA must have come from the same (Dynamic)
inspiration as those in ZMM, and yet I couldn't seem to apply them
consistently.  What you have explained here has helped get me back on track.
	Sometimes imagery does it better than bare logic.  The one sentence
that will stick with me and guide me is:
	I have said it before and will say it again: the MOQ is NOT a
personal scrip for changing the world. It is a worldly scrip for changing
your self. It is a signifier dancing (DQ) the conditioned towards??
	That scores!

Be assured that I have not "taken my toys and gone home", nor have I left in
anger or frustration.  I have just been occupied with "urgent things" and
have neglected "important things".  You have all been helpful, including
David, and I have taken all your contributions to heart and will continue to
benefit from them.

Great good wishes,

John L. McConnell
Home:  407-857-2004
Cell:      321-438-6301
Email:   trexxtechs at bellsouth.net


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Today's Topics:

   1.  MOQ is good.  What is it good for? (Andre Broersen)
   2. Re: Henry Miller's book Big Sur (Dan Glover)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:57:57 +0200
From: Andre Broersen <andrebroersen at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at lists.moqtalk.org
Subject: [MD]  MOQ is good.  What is it good for?
Message-ID: <CF74BB8C-E4AE-46BC-93AE-5A0473CC1CA2 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Dear MOQ?ers
Some time ago ( Wed, sept 14) John M said:
The MOQ isn't a living, dynamic entity.  It is a static intellectual
pattern.  It was made at a point in time by one person, in the midst of his
own unique circumstances.  But it doesn't fit mine,?? 

Andre:
This ? it doesn?t fit mine?  keeps on bothering me a bit. We?ve had so many
people here who eventually left (in frustration may I add) because there
crept in an anomaly with what they considered to be the MOQ?i.e.what Pirsig
was talking about and their own experience of the perspective furnished by
this self same MOQ as devised by Pirsig.

We have seen good, well-intentioned people leaving this discussion because
their experience did not seam well with the MOQ as represented in LILA,
defended by the likes of Anthony, dmb, Arlo, Ron and Dan. They argued a
discrepancy between their living of the MOQ (as they experienced it) and
Pirsig?s deposition thereof in LILA.

LILA is a book?an exposition of the insights of a very special person who,
as Cat Stevens once poetically said ?turned the world to order? ( the song
Jesus on Buddha and the Chocolate Box). And, boy this world needs to be
turned to order? . It?s a karmic mess?we all know it, see it, feel it and
when we look honestly we see that the MOQ tells us how. The nice thing of
course is that it does not give us any definite answers! Thank goodness for
that. Otherwise we?re be stuck with another dogma. 

It does give us pointers.

And because Pirsig did ( when you are?and certainly you are) lend assistance
to a living, sentient being with the ordering of the interpretation of our
experience he thereby presents us with a clear starting point that is ever
changing and ever renewed. 

It is good to have a solid foundation from which to see, feel, hear and
argue. This is not dogma?it is realizing that words are simply pointers. And
it is important to get the words right. And once the words are in place they
are properly understood?in the context within which they receive their
fullest meaning and explanatory power.

In the same way that a menu is a pointer to the food it does not and cannot
be a substitute or a guarantee for the quality of the food that ends up on
your plate. No matter what the menu says?there is no guarantee that it is
going to be to your liking? and pay special attention here to the
word/concept YOUR. 

If the food does not agree with you?are you going to blame the menu?the
waiter, the cook, the butter, the oil, the heat, the oven, the weather?your
mechanic. your wife, your children, the maid, your bank manager, your pet,
your tools, the class room, the sun set, the Middle East, the IS, the
Buddha, Jesus Christ,  Krishnamurti?Pirsig?

I have said it before and will say it again: the MOQ is NOT a personal scrip
for changing the world. It is a worldly scrip for changing your self. It is
a signifier dancing (DQ) the conditioned towards??

It is a sign pointing towards the moon. We can pretend to be responsible for
the best sexual experiences in the world. We can pretend to be the best
celebrities in the world with the the highest status and the most money in
the bank. We can pretend to be the smartest intellectually productive
thought producers in the world . But that is NOT what it?s about.

Were here to see the moon?that?s all. Realize Rta/dharma. That?s the
clearest pointer of an idea you can get. 

And there is nothing personal in that. As a matter of fact, it has nothing
to do with ?mine?  or yours or me or you. Perhaps that is the most difficult
illusion to overcome.

And it is the oldest idea known to man. (LILA,p 390)

Namaste.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:50:27 -0600
From: Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Henry Miller's book Big Sur
Message-ID:
	<CAK6fb8=KwkMihQdLWdn9F5WVwwbaMusH6SLS8iN3HhzL5ziRWA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Jan-Anders,

How fantastically delightful! Who knew a bathroom could be so insightful.
And I'm still trying to figure out how the girl got in the shower...  I am
certainly glad she did though! Henry's reaction is priceless!

Thanks for sharing,

Dan

http://www.danglover.com

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Jan Anders Andersson
<jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
> Hi Dan and others
>
> Seen this?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPJmm4_rcSU
>
> nice summary and references to both Bosch and Buddha
>
> hope you enjoy it
>
> Jan-Anders
>
>
> 17 maj 2014 x kl. 09:36 skrev Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk>:
>
>> Dan,
>>
>> Many, many thanks for the additional biographical details about Henry
Miller.  I suppose seeing now that Miller influenced Jack Kerouac's writing
who, in turn of course, influenced Pirsig, I suppose we shouldn't be TOO
surprized that Miller's and Pirsig's writing have deep similarities
especially about subjects such as art and mysticism.
>>
>> I'm therefore looking forward to reading "Big Sur" more than ever now!
>>
>> Happy reading!
>>
>> Ant
>>
>>
>> www.robertpirsig.org
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>>
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> I hadn't realised either that Henry Miller's "Big Sur and the 
>>> Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch" was written extensively "about artists of
all sorts... [and that he claimed] even the community plumber is an artist.
Reminds me a lot of ZMM."
>>>
>>> I, for one anyway, will be making sure to also read Miller's "Big Sur"
book this Summer if only due to your intriguing comment quoted above.  Many
thanks for pointing this similarity out between the two books.  Much
appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Dan Glover replied to Ant McWatt, May 17th 2014:
>>
>>
>> Hi Ant,
>>
>> I'm about 1/2 way through with the book and enjoying it immensely.
>> While it isn't a travel-related book like ZMM it is definitely worth 
>> a read... I think you'll see the resemblance. From Wiki:
>>
>> "Henry Valentine Miller (December 26, 1891 ? June 7, 1980) was an 
>> American writer. He was known for breaking with existing literary 
>> forms, developing a new sort of semi-autobiographical novel that 
>> blended character study, social criticism, philosophical reflection, 
>> explicit language, sex, surrealist free association and mysticism, 
>> always distinctly about and expressive of the real-life Henry Miller 
>> and yet also fictional."
>>
>> The article goes on to say his work had a heavy influence on the Beat 
>> writers, especially Jack Kerouac, the only one Miller cared for.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> http://www.danglover.com
>>
>>




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