[MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

[John Carl]

I agree Ron.  That is a good way of putting it.  Somebody, I can't remember
who, pointed out that reality is not a scientific term but rather a
philosophical one.



On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Ron Kulp <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On May 23, 2015, at 12:54 AM, Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'd say science pertains to a representation of reality. That's why
> > science is malleable and subject to revision... no?
> >
> Ron replies:
> I would say so, a model or representation is tested in experience
> As having the ability to accurately predict observable phenomena.
> Thanks Dan that's a better way of putting it.
>
> >> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ron Kulp <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >> John,
> >> What does science pertain to if not
> >> A kind of reality?
> >>
> >>> On May 22, 2015, at 3:09 PM, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ron, Jan and all,
> >>>
> >>> Science sees itself outside of the rhetorical game?  Sort of.  Perhaps
> >>> another way of saying it is that science sees it's rhetorical games as
> of a
> >>> very special class.  That pertaining to actual reality.  When science
> does
> >>> this, it's making a big mistake.
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Ron Kulp <xacto at rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> This is what was very interesting about the article from my point of
> view.
> >>>> Science sees itself as outside the rhetorical game. Therefore it does
> not
> >>>> utilize the art of persuasion as effectively because it assumes the
> facts
> >>>> speak for themselves , the facts
> >>>> Themselves should be convincing enough. However, experience shows that
> >>>> this not enough and sadly science is losing the battle in the arena of
> >>>> public opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 20, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Ron Kulp <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey Jan, John ,
> >>>>> I think the idea being expressed In that quote John posted is that
> what
> >>>> often is passed as "fact" is often opinion or point of view. An
> assumption
> >>>> . However, facts or truth in scientific terms is verifiable in
> experience.
> >>>> Often that quote or idea is popularly misapplied in academic
> environments
> >>>> today.
> >>>>> -Ron
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On May 20, 2015, at 4:04 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <
> >>>> jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi JC
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Doesn’t that show the dichotomy between a social moral, which is
> >>>> defined by a group excluding other groups, and the intellectual moral
> >>>> level, where scientific concepts are the same for any individual?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> it can lead a hasty interpretation in that direction, Jan-anders, but a
> >>> closer examination shows a deeper truth - that the distinction between
> >>> social and intellectual is non-absolute.  that is, the line between is
> >>> more dualistic and relational than distinct and oppositional.  At least
> >>> from an enlightened point of view!  Which I take as an assumption,
> here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It is also problematic, for me, to assume the 4th level (as we
> >>> conceptualize it for convenience) to be ruled by science.  Intellect is
> >>> much bigger than mere science can comprehend - for intellect accepts
> the
> >>> existence of DQ, and science does not.
> >>>
> >>> JC
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play within boundaries.
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