[MD] Rhetoric

Sun Jan 1 05:53:47 PST 2017

The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it.

Tuk

On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote:
> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:
>
> I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism is not correct.
>
> The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal reality or "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that phenomenal reality is the only
> reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct everyday experience," "the primary empirical reality," or quotes William James referring to "the immediate flux of reality," and "pure experience" he is talking about phenomenal reality as such.
>
> Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite preposterous. Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ or create an alternative without understanding it first.
>
> Buyer beware.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>
> I think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's are not
> always what they seem.Some are very deceptive.
> In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually nothing more than a
> collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It is spiced and
> salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.
> The best way of putting it  ,in my opinion,is to regard it as a new attempt
> to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the terminology of a
> computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a very intelligent
> thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any way or
> field.
>
> I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality itself,or add new
> insights;
> it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not shifting up, but
> in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.
>
> I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it is'nt.You should
> explore these things, they are less boring than Wittgenstein,and he was not
> all that clever also.
>
> the only part of critics i have is about your statement, "competitor to the
> moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.
>
>
>
>
> 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>
>> Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor to the MOQ and
>> AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.
>>
>> Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t
>> he_Universe
>>
>> ***
>>
>> On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does not conform to
>> mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore not real.
>> Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of
>> "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal reality we perceive.
>> Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as oxymoronic
>> "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal reality, as the only
>> reality we can know, is the only reality there is.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the level of ZAMM.
>> It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is romantic quality.
>> Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality.
>>
>> Tuk
>>
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