[MD] The need for quality

Tue Oct 3 01:57:43 PDT 2017

Hi , Wes.

Khalil was not executed.The point he mentioned was the point you nailed to
the barngate.Its not imaginairy if others also come up with the same
insight.
I do not think that Mr Buchanan's response to Khalil's posting was an
execution in any way.Quite the opposite.David was very helpfull to explain
that the moq is approachable without the need for a creator,without the
need for the gospel.....,but he did not shred the point that was made.The
proposals
he made were to make us understand that the Moq and the novell it contains
are not the same.Nor are they reality.They are proposals and models.

The remark you and Khalil are talking about locates itself in the
novelle-part
of the book,and is not  embedded in the philosophical  issue's of the
book,it is not stand-alone due to be part of the interfering third person
narrator speaking along the two story's either.....It adds complexity by
the literairy swirls and philosophical vortexes it induces.The explanatory
powers of
Pirsig's pen is truly amazing.
Very fast Khalil knew he stepped on a minefield of theistic whirling and
content.That seemed to be implied.In the novelle at least.The Moq takes
another stance.

i'm impressed that you found this point, this lead-in;but my warning was
not baseless or ungrounded as you can see.It was intended to make you
carefull, make you drive responsibel.

As an aside;i'v noticed the 'ca',in your mail adress, so apparently you are
a Canadian?, if so you can deal with it if some of my words have a French
look and feel , like say'novelle' as i have to write novell.Probably you
are bilingual?, ....

Anyway. i'm not an expert.Only Pirsig himself is an expert about his work.

Adrie

2017-10-03 6:47 GMT+02:00 WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca>:

> Hello Everyone;
>
> The minute I hear this person is an expert, we should all follow him, its
> not a quality statement.
> "If we are all thinking the same, then no one is really thinking." Its a
> quote and I agree.
> It does not matter if Kahlil was shot down. Why was he shot down?
> Probably most likely was to keep everyone thinking the same, that way
> dynamic quality can be thwarted.
>
>
> From: "Adrie Kintziger" <parser666 at gmail.com>
> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 12:41:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
>
> In 2004 already, khalil mentioned the connection of Lila => as Laila,as
> the divine essence in Arabic?/related to the Whirling Derwishes,the
> divine,and mysticism.
>
> snip from the archives. (2004) i'm sure you can find it.
>
> "http://www.moqtalk.org/archivedata/moq_discuss/2002%20-%202005/7318.html
>
> so you have a valid case, Wes.But can we read Laila=>as Lila,if we keep in
> mind that in fact Phaedrus => Faidrus or Phaidrus,(from Plato/Socrates),
> obviously.!
>
> http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/plato-the-dialogues-of-plato-vol-1
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaedrus_(dialogue)
>
> so Pheadros is really only the interlocutor.Derwishes can be seen as
> interlocutors.One hand to the skies, one to the earth.Mystic sjamanism.
> We are all whirling sjamans.We all whirl around theism sometimes.
>
>
> 2017-09-30 18:06 GMT+02:00 Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>:
>
> > Oeps, i did not made a hyperlink,another google feature emerges!
> > disregard.
> >
> > 2017-09-30 18:05 GMT+02:00 Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> @ Wes.
> >> One of the highlights in Pirsig's work, is the absence of the creator,
> >> the 'Absolute', and any form of mystic thruth, or mysticism.Pirsig made
> it
> >> quite clear that they have no place in his work.In the Copleston
> >> Annotations he rages several times about the 'Absolute', naming it as a
> >> brand of vodka.
> >> Its quite a bit strange that, whilst reading Lila, you accidentaly came
> >> across these issue's regardless of some not beiing named or spoken of in
> >> Lila.
> >>
> >> If you feel like in need of the 'Absolute', or the presence of the
> >> creator as an
> >> attribute to the Moq or Lila;do not bother....you will not find them in
> >> Pirsig's work.Nor you will find mysticism along the lines.....in
> interviews
> >> he gave or comments.
> >>
> >> I admit i pushed you a little to make you read Pirsig, or Lila,as i
> >> tought it
> >> would be appropriate for you to know the content.It was not my intention
> >> to ridicule you or make myself look more clever.
> >> Apparently you took the bait and started reading.Nice.It would be nice
> >> if you started to discover things.... and talk about it.
> >>
> >> Maybe you have a very nice point with this Derwish related spinning.
> >> Probably you are not aware of it , but my wife is Turkish,and her father
> >> came from Kayseri (the former Cesarea) and that is in the same area as
> >> where
> >> Konya is.The Derwishes are very well known there and i have some
> >> knowledge of Mevlana, Rumi, and related issue's.
> >> But of course if you keep insisting to stay on the creators
> path,.....our
> >> ways will have to part.
> >>
> >>
> >> Try to keep a hawkseye on your terms and denotations and connotations.
> >> I will give you an example.
> >>
> >> This is the last sentence ou the previous posting you made.
> >> A statement made by you.
> >>
> >> quote Wes (out of context).
> >>
> >> "A stagnant system does not bring anyone to whirl."
> >>
> >> comment A3,
> >> only partially thrue, as Pirsig was very clear about the static Moq.
> >> I found it back on Dr Mc Watt's site, Moq.org
> >>
> >> The moq itself is static, unlike the Dynamic Quality it talks about.If
> >> you can find it back on that page, i will give you a imaginary medal of
> >> honour.
> >>
> >> But you are not the first to make the remark, and you are right a static
> >> reality does not rock.
> >>
> >>
> >> I still have a little aside, Wes, as you keep writing, Pursig,
> >> Persig,Ardrie, Ardie,
> >> and Praedus,it dawned at me that you are possible a dyslectic
> >> person?...if so,no problem,i will not make fun out of it,but i do not
> see
> >> mistakes in the other parts of your postings, possibly the corrector
> >> interferes?.Just let me know.
> >>
> >> A3
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-09-30 5:59 GMT+02:00 WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca>:
> >>
> >>> Hello Dan;
> >>>
> >>> Are you the sole keeper of all knowledge on this site?
> >>>
> >>> Why did you turn Ardie into a lackie; you should have stopped it.
> >>> Ardie is a good man and he should write something that I could learn
> >>> from.
> >>>
> >>> Why do you start with an opinion that this is a trump card, to any
> >>> observations that others have made?
> >>>
> >>> Phraedus attacked only those who represented a system, he never bullied
> >>> his opinions on students sitting in the back row.
> >>> Everyone of us at this forum is a student sitting in the back row.
> >>>
> >>> Pirsig did not want to bring any whiff of religion into any of his
> >>> writings and denied it; yet it was so.
> >>>
> >>> What exactly is a "Whirling dervish?" Why did Pirsig use this term?
> >>>
> >>> "He looked up in the sky and whirled. Ahhh, that felt good! He hadn’t
> >>> whirled like that for years.
> >>> Since he was four. He whirled again. The sky, the ocean, the hook, the
> >>> bay, spun round and round him. He felt like a Whirling Dervish."
> >>> From Lila: An Inquiry into Morals by Robert Pirsig
> >>>
> >>> It is only used as a term when you feel the presence of a creator.
> >>> We whirl at young ages as Pirsig had done, we feel the presence of the
> >>> creator. We whirl when we see value and quality in our reality.
> >>>
> >>> A stagnant system does not bring anyone to whirl.
> >>>
> >>> From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:11:47 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
> >>>
> >>> Wes,
> >>>
> >>> Have I offended you somehow? If so, I apologize. Our discussion will
> end
> >>> here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 2:11 AM, WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>> > Hello Ardie;
> >>> >
> >>> > It does not matter that Dan had the opportunity to work with Pirsig
> >>> himself.
> >>> > I am aware aware of that also. But tell me why, that Horse had told
> me
> >>> this group was dead?
> >>> >
> >>> > Does Dan have anything to learn? If he does not have anything to
> learn,
> >>> > I suggest he fly to Japan and have a brief conversation with Jiro.
> >>> >
> >>> > If I had the money or time I would; want to meet Jiro.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > From: "Adrie Kintziger" <parser666 at gmail.com>
> >>> > To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >>> > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 12:59:23 AM
> >>> > Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi, Wes, I live in Belgium, and i have copy's of 'Zen'... and 'Lila',
> >>> in
> >>> > different language's.Belium is tri-lingual. It seems to depend on the
> >>> > editor/corrector/translator and...the several runs of it publishing.
> >>> > You are not correct as it differs for the L and l in the way you are
> >>> > projecting.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Btw , Dan had the opportunity to work with Pirsig himself(the
> Author),
> >>> on a
> >>> > book follow -up called 'Lila's Child',to clarify some issue's, and
> Dan
> >>> > became an expert on the Subject Lila,Lila's Child, and Pirsig's work
> >>> > altogether.
> >>> > If he offers something, it is nearly as good and solid,as it was
> given
> >>> > first handed by Pirsig himself.
> >>> > I also remember Pirsig making the statement about the Lilac's odor.
> >>> > But Dan is correct,Lila is Pirsig.Lila is an imaginary product.Lila
> is
> >>> > inorganic/organic/biological/intellectual. In this summary nothing
> is
> >>> > excluded.
> >>> >
> >>> > Adrie
> >>> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> parser
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > parser
> >
>
>
>
> --
> parser
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parser