[MD] The need for quality

Horse horse at darkstar.uk.net
Tue Sep 12 15:13:24 PDT 2017

Yeah, that is a shame. I liked Bo, often didn't agree with him but I 
liked him.
RIP Bo :(

On 11/09/2017 09:41, Adrie Kintziger wrote:
> Just an aside  not related to this thread is that Tuuka posted on the Lila
> Squad list, that Bodvar Skutvik has passed away.(yesterday)
> May he rest in peace.
> Adrie
> 2017-09-11 5:44 GMT+02:00 WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca>:
>> Hello Dan, Andrew and X-Acto;
>> I have responded to your question towards the end X-Acto.
>> Thanks for the response Ardie;
>> Yes these are old ideas, concepts that are approaching 90 years, yet they
>> still work for quality.
>> I will build a story, that gives you an idea of Deming, and how his
>> philosophy enhances Pirsig, and how Pirsig's philosophy enhances Deming.
>> This is a simple story.
>> The story begins with let us say; I am a new quality /safety manager for a
>> company with 500 employees that work outdoors.
>> A senior manager comes to me and tells me the workers injury compensation
>> payments are too high. He tells me to do something about lowering injuries.
>> He also adds its costing him on around $3000 dollars per injury, because an
>> employee sits on average 4 days before recovering from their injury.
>> I have some statistical data of injuries from the previous 36 months. It
>> appears that ankle injuries are the most frequently occurring injuries. I
>> add up the ankle injuries for the 36 months, I then divide by 36 and come
>> up with a number of 41. So on average this organization has 41 ankle sprain
>> or fractures that occur every month.
>> I want to do something because it is a moral thing; lowering that average
>> will also reduce the number of people who suffer pain and injury each
>> month. Would someone say my moral thinking is subjective? A psychopath
>> might.
>> At this point I calculate standard deviation of 1, and come up with an
>> upper limit of 47 ankle injuries and a lower limit of 35, I calculate
>> standard deviation of 2 upper limit 53, lower limit of 29. I calculate
>> standard deviation of 3 upper limit of 59 and a lower limit 23.
>> Next month I can forecast the ankle injury rate with 99% certainty will
>> fall between 59 and 23. I can also say that 68% of the time it will fall
>> between a standard deviation of 1, from 47 to 35.
>> Pirsig would call this a static pattern, Deming would say it is in a state
>> of statistical process control. Pirsig would say it's a system that will
>> not change unless there is "dynamic quality" added to it. Deming would say
>> there has to be some "special cause" variation in order for change to
>> happen, the static pattern he see's is "common cause" variation, it's a
>> normal distribution curve, it is a normal pattern that occurs in nature.
>> Let's say I do some research and visit 50 employees out in the field, and
>> startled to find that 48 of them wear low cut running shoes, only two of
>> them were wearing something with good solid ankle support
>> I go to several work boot suppliers, ask them for advice and I am
>> impressed with one of them having so much knowledge on what good ankle
>> support is in a workboot. What's average better and best, in both comfort
>> and support, then he shows me the longest lasting, high quality boot with
>> those attributes.
>> At a company meeting, I explain my rational and ask upper management to
>> reimburse every employee for boot purchase from that one supplier. I add in
>> that boots are personal protective equipment, and OHS regulations require
>> us to reimburse our employees for this. Maybe there is a large debate,
>> maybe the accountant says, "the guys out in the field are all idiots, they
>> just have to be more careful." Maybe at the end of the meeting the CEO
>> steps in and says "We have not been able to lower that rate in 3 years, in
>> spite of threats of termination and terminations, we have lost lots of our
>> most productive employees." He then agrees to go with my recommendations.
>> I have done something to change the system, we wanted to see that average
>> of 41 ankle injuries per month drop, and if we make the next month
>> measurement and find, that it is below 23 (standard deviation of 3) , it
>> may mean something. It may mean that the process of how ankle injuries
>> occurr is no longer a stable process, something has changed in the system.
>> As more people purchase boots we see, it drops to 20 then the following
>> month it goes to 15, thats a trend, because in the past 3 years it never
>> went below 23. Thats improvement in the quality of the working environment
>> for employees out in the field, thats something that is measureable.
>> I measure the ankle injury rate for another 36 months, after the changes,
>> and see that the average is now 13 with the Upper control limit is 21 and
>> the lower control limit is now 0, thats real, we can see those numbers. Now
>> that is an improvement in the quality of the working environment of 68%,
>> specific to ankle injuries.
>> Maybe the CEO talks with me about those 0 ankle injury months, and tells
>> me upper management has decided that they want them all to be 0 ankle
>> injury months. I try to explain to him about human beings and variation.
>> "Common cause variation in rain, wind, heat, terrain, stress, fatigue,
>> having a baby, and worried about keeping your job all fix those static
>> patterns of quality, from 0 to 21. Even the support of an employees direct
>> manager affect those numbers along with cooperation and teamwork from
>> fellow employees. Threats of firings or lay-off's do not help, after all,
>> who can think clearly when they are agitated, because distractions cause
>> those ankle sprain injuries."
>> I tell him to expect the average to remain the same around 13. I tell him
>> the 0-21 variation from month to month is a normal distribution pattern
>> that is seen in nature. I state to him matter of factly, that business men
>> cannot really make demands on nature or science to change. Both safety and
>> quality will always see these normal distribution patterns, and for that
>> reason it will never reach 0 every month. I say to him that I will try to
>> come up with some other ways to improve the quality of the working
>> environment for our employees, but expect it not to move until I come up
>> with some ideas and we implement those changes.
>> Maybe the accountant meets me in the hallway moments later and says, " We
>> can have a 0 ankle injury month, and if you cannot do it every month maybe
>> we should hire a quality/ safety manager that can."
>> Hello X-Acto, I will keep to Pirsigs or Demings description of a SYSTEM,
>> because both of them talk about corruption, you can review Pirsigs full
>> description in Chapter 8.
>> Pirsig is extremely artful in his description because he has a Doctorate
>> in Creative Writing; Deming a physicist, mathematician, and statistician,
>> sometimes outwardly states they are corrupted by their greed. I think that
>> the systems theorists description that you sent me was well thought out of
>> what it should be; but naive as to what happens in real life, a SYSTEM can
>> create the Iraq war and unknowingly produce an ISIS, but was it really an
>> intelligent move?
>> Here is some of what Pirsig states in Chapter 8;
>> "But to tear down a factory or revolt against a government....because it
>> is a system is to attack effects rather than causes, and as long as the
>> attack is against effects, no change is possible. The true system, the real
>> system is the construction of systemic thought itself, rationality of
>> thought, and if a factory is torn down but the rationality of thought which
>> produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce
>> another factory."
>> "If a revolution destroys a systematic government, but the same systematic
>> patterns of thought are left intact,
>> then those same patterns will repeat themselves in succeeding
>> governments." From Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert
>> Pirsig
>> In this imaginary story "the real system is the construction of systemic
>> thought itself, rationality of thought" of the capitalist system
>> which is based wholly on greed and self interest, which is a part of
>> government just as much as it is part of business. The rationality of the
>> CEO and the accountant in this made up story is the real system, "the
>> construction of systemic thought itself, rationality of thought",is not
>> science its disturbed and biased and will always make poor decisions
>> concerning quality because of self interest, self importance and greed.
>> From: "X Acto" <xacto at rocketmail.com>
>> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 11:23:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Sep 7, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Andrew Chu <andrew.chu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From: "WES STEWART" <wesstt at shaw.ca>
>>> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 10:15:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
>>> Hell Dan and All;
>>> I get a lot of my philosophy of quality, not from Pirsig but from
>> William Edwards Deming. It was back in the twenties when Walter Shewhart
>> and Deming were searching for ways to improve the Quality of transmission
>> lines at Bell Labs. They had defined Quality as a SYSTEM that is in a state
>> of continuous improvement. Shewhart and Deming looked at all SYSTEMs then
>> used their intellect or reason to search for ways to improve the SYSTEM.
>>> Martin Luther King also used his intellect for ways to improve the
>> SYSTEM, in which he paid the ultimate price that was delivered from
>> Biologically dominated human beings.
>> Ron interjects:
>> Hello Wes,Dan, All,
>> I've been following the thread off and on and I was curious about how Wes
>> defined the term "SYSTEM".
>> In system theory it is defined as
>> an entity with interrelated and interdependent parts; it is defined by its
>> boundaries and it is more than the sum of its parts (subsystem).
>> Positive growth and adaptation of a system depend upon how well the system
>> is adjusted with its environment, and systems often exist to accomplish a
>> common purpose (a work function) that also aids in the maintenance of the
>> system or the operations may result in system failure.
>> With the goal being isotelesis.
>> the intelligent direction of effort toward the achievement of an end.
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"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."
— Bob Moorehead

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