Hi Arlo,

Thanks for this summary of all the divergent threads on similar topics in MD which are going on right now. Naturally your comments in regards to the Wiki interested me...

Arlo:
> RE: Wikipedias.
> 
> Ant, I disagree with your dismissal of these venues. Thinking of my own
> interests, a MOQ-Wiki can bring just this divergent perspective to a MOQ 
> field.
> I was thinking recently of doing a page on the MOQ-Wiki on Bourdieu and 
> Marx
> (assuming a Dewey page would be evident from the forthcoming book). That 
> way,
> for example, if one searched for "symbolic violence", one could find
> information on how Bourdieu's notions on educations resonate with some 
> of the
> ZMM ideas developed by Pirsig (as Dan in a recent post greatly expanded 
> upon).

David H:
Yes, and the great thing about a Wiki is that you can do this thinking on an MOQ related website for others to read, absorb and most importantly *easily access*. Great for newcommers to the MOQ and great for oldcommers too.  Or to use Pirsigs analogy IMHO, the MOQ Wiki gets rid of Joe dictator and indexs the MOQ.

Arlo:
> The problem with wikis I have found is one of "gravitation". That is, 
> once a
> certain critical mass of text is met, wikis seem to work fine. However, 
> getting
> some to invest in that initial phase is difficult. Myself included. If 
> we would
> all, for example pick ONE topic (another philosopher, or a keyword, or
> whatever) and develop just that one page, I think we could push for 
> overcoming
> this inertia.

David H:
Well, as I've said, either way I plan to work on it heavily over the Christmas break.  However after having spent a few days on it already, your concerns are valid.  And as with everything, writers block is quite common, I found myself wanting to simply repeat what I have heard before and not be very creative.  More people would solve this for me, but as of right now, the site still stands as it was when I last edited it. I don't expect any miracles.  

Arlo:
 A 500-word essay is one thing, and I would add why not 
> choose one
> topic and author a page on that on the MOQ-Wiki. Besides "Emergence" and
> "symbolic violence" there could be pages relating "Atlas Shrugged" and 
> "The
> Ragged Trousered Philanthropists" to Pirsig's ideas. As for Wiki 
> contribtions,
> there is no reason a wiki can't be set so that pages can only be edited 
> by
> certain members. Wikipedia has a similar editorial structure. But the 
> bottom
> line is a wiki is only as valuable as what its users decide...  consider
> "Memory Alpha Wiki", a repository for Star Trek information, the geeks 
> love it,
> and so it works.

David H:
The MOQ Wiki has a feature whereby if you make a contribution and some idiot comes along and deletes the whole text with some comment about boobs then moderators can quickly restore the content to a previous version, and either warn the user, ban the user, or even possibly the computer they offended from.

Arlo:
>
> RE: Where from here?
> 
> Well. This is the fundamental question. In The Academy, we should 
> encourage and
> support the publication of works such as the (now available) Granger 
> book on
> Dewey and Pirsig. We should, all of us, consider some venue of 
> publication
> regarding the MOQ and our personal areas of interest. Someone should 
> consider
> formalizing to some degree the "code of art" level in the MOQ. But I 
> think
> ultimately the question we must ask is "why are we here?" Once we answer 
> that,
> where we go from here is relatively easy.
> 
> Just some thoughts....
> 

And some fine thoughts too!  I'd also like to sum up my thoughts on the issues too.  IMHO the Wiki actually solves a number of issues which have been brought up on MD.

1) The newcommer issue - need of something for newcommers, to more easily understand the MOQ, and not be scarred off by old hats on MD.
2) The common ground issue - need of something which people can easily refer to on a topic so they can both stand on common ground without having to search through thousands of archived MD or MF posts or Ant Thesis or Lila or ZAMM or SODV or etc etc etc.  
3) Importantly (a great benefit of a Wiki) *A reference which can change easily as new insights are found and old ones forgotten*.   
4) Maybe just as important (another great benefit of a Wiki) Something which can be searched easily and references found on any given MOQ related topic.

Also, in regards to 3 & 4, in the MD archives, there has always been this issue of not knowing whether the views expressed are those currently held, or even the best ones, of not only the author but of the MOQ community group, an MOQ Wiki removes *some*, not all, some of this ambiguity.  This helps not only newcommers, but oldcommers too.

Anywho just my two bob.

Cheers,

David.