[MF] R: the way forward for MoQ discussion lists

[Valence]

Hello all:

First, a warm hello to our old cohort Marco (hey Marco, great to hear from
you, hope all is well is with the wife and daughter).  Second (but not, in
anyway less) a whole hearted congratulations to Paul (and unnamed wife) on
the birth of their second child.

Okay, now that that's out the way...

DARIO
I am for the KISS method.... BTW, I unsuscribed from MD because I couldn't
cope with the amount of stuff to read. Maybe it's just me.

WIM
No, that most definitely is NOT just you... I'm still subscribed, but read
very little.

R
I think we're all for keeping it simple, the challenge is deciding what
exactly is "simple".  One would think the "simplest" thing would just be one
big unmoderated list (basically just MD).  But as you point out, and Wim
agrees, sorting through the phenomenally massive quantity of posts can be
difficult to cope with... not so simple.  So maybe simplifying implies
carving the one list up into specialty forums of some kind so members could
sign up for what sounds like what they're interested in and increase the
probability that the emails that show up in their box will be something
they're interested in.  We've got a bunch of suggestions on the table, so
let's get a handle on them:

1.  One big, unmoderated list (MD);
2.  Two lists: MD and MF (or some variation thereof);
3.  Two lists: Pirsig Discussion/Open Critique (or Pirsig history/Pirsig
Philosophy as Matt puts it, or Pirsig SQ/Pirsig DQ as Wim puts it);
4.  Multiple forums (or as Erin frames it, running "threads") by
topic/theme, like the ones suggested by Sam and Marco;
5.  Something else entirely (?!?)

My thoughts:

Ok, so #1 is simplest in execution, but unwieldy and discouraging (as
expressed by Dario and Wim and agreed upon by me).  

#2 entails basically the status quo or some tweaked version of it (e.g. MD
and an MF which is simply a sparsely moderated, open discussion with a post
limit... a slow motion MD).

#3 is the suggestion that Paul put forth and Matt and Wim ran with in
various directions.  My fear about this version, separating "Pirsig" from
"Criticism of Pirsig" is that it could easily degenerate in to a situation
of "All dissenters should report to room-B"... We risk choking off DQ by
sifting out the pro-pirsigs from the anti-pirsigs from the undecideds and
the indifferents.   I realize that many have expressed their exacerbation
with endless fighting and bickering MD (me among them) and this option would
surely go a long way towards curing a lot of that, but at what price?  Of
course the priests will be happier if they a nice, little, out of sight
place to send the saints and the brujos when they get too bothersome (and
heck, the saints and brujos might enjoy each other's company more than that
of priests), but well, I think you see what I'm getting at by now.  Matt's
vision of a "Pirsig History" vs. "Pirsig Philosophy" forum makes a lot more
sense to me, but again, I think it will quickly degenerate into a situation
where everyone is just telling everyone else that "they've misunderstood
Pirsig" and "if that's what you believe than you should be over in the other
forum.  Suddenly, everyone will be in "the other forum" and we'll be back to
one big list.  This, right now, is my least favorite suggestion.

4.  This is the solution that makes the most sense to me.  Firstly, it gives
everyone maximum inbox control because they can just sign up for the topics
they want (and those like Marsha are free to sign up for all).  I know I'd
sign up for a discussion list called "Pirsig as Literature" and very glad to
know that I won't have to hear about what's going on in the "MOQ and
Politics" list.  Second, it doesn't choke off dissenters.  DMB can avoid the
"MOQ and Pragmatism" thread if he wants, or he can show up and dissent, make
the prags defend themselves, test their ideas and try to win them over with
his arguments (the point is he'd be talking about pragmatism... on topic,
the prags in turn are free to show up in "MOQ and Campbell" and test DMB,
but they'd have to stick to Campbell in turn). Third, this balances the
spirit of MD and MF by allowing everyone the chance to _focus_ in on a theme
in an essentially unmoderated, ongoing forum (topics can be "member
enforced" and only "committee enforced" in the most extreme of
circumstances).  This is what I think Erin envisions by framing the various
forums as "threads"... it will literally be a whole bunch of Baby-MDs each
"focused" on an area of conversation.  Of course there will be a lot of
crossover but I don't think it will be a problem, in fact, I think it'll be
a good thing, after all the idea is focus, not tunnel vision.  

5.  Anyone?  Anyone?

Alright.  I've got 12 hours of work tomorrow.  Bed time.

Take care
Rick

PS
It's late and I'm tired so if this is full of weird typos... please forgive.