[MF] MOQ: valuable or not?

[Marty Jorgensen]

Hi Matt Ok, it looks like were about finished with this; I won't make any
more comments after this unless you ask me a question or I just can't help
myself.  

Matt said:

But the only difference between 
"God is Love" and "Quality is undefined" is that the latter slogan has been
used by only one person, so the context is easy to find, no less because
this forum demands that everybody have that context in the back of one's
head.

Marty replies:

Yes, I agree with all you've said, but my point is that this site is
designed for the discussion of ideas, concepts, etc, and if someone throws
out a statement like "God is Love" within that context I think it's
perfectly reasonable to ask for a definition of what that means.  The fact
that there are other statements, like "Quality is undefined" that also need
explanation doesn't change the situation.

Marty

"Satan is Hate"

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_focus-bounces at moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_focus-bounces at moqtalk.org]
On Behalf Of Matt Kundert
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:22 AM
To: moq_focus at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MF] MOQ: valuable or not?

Hey Marty,

Marty said:
Saying that "Quality is undefined" doesn't leave us with nowhere to go; 
Quality, like the Tao, may not be specifically defined, but for Pirsig's 
purposes, it doesn't have to be.  "God is Love", on the other hand, IS a 
definition; it is saying that "God" and "Love" are somehow equal, without 
ever saying what either one is. "God is Love" is defining God and Love, 
without explaining what these terms are referring to.  There are all kinds 
of love and I've heard quite a few definitions of God, so unless you explain

which ones you mean, I have no idea of what you're talking about.

Matt:
Sure, its a conversational difficulty.  But I would think it to be a bit of 
overkill to say that it is "philosophically meaningless."  "God is Love" is 
no less a slogan in need of explaining than is "Quality is undefined."  Any 
slogan gains its meaning from the ink spilt around it.  As you said, Pirsig 
spills a bunch of ink around his.  And until somebody spills ink around 
their own slogan, be it "God is Love," "Life is Suffering," "History is 
Class Struggle," or "Truth is Good," the conversation stalls.  I don't think

we should say they are philosophically meaningless, just that they are 
currently obscure.  And when there have been many conversations surrounding 
a slogan, a quick use of one can produce obscurity when the interlocuter 
isn't sure which context, to generate the meaning, to put it in.  Like in 
the case of "God is Love."  You're absolutely right that there are many 
definitions and meanings of both terms.  But the only difference between 
"God is Love" and "Quality is undefined" is that the latter slogan has been 
used by only one person, so the context is easy to find, no less because 
this forum demands that everybody have that context in the back of one's 
head.

Matt

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