[MD] Music and the Moq

MarshaV valkyr at att.net
Mon Jan 4 12:13:58 PST 2010
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Mary, Joe, Bo,



After a few years of observation (I'm slow.), a realization started to dawn on me,  'Oh, so that's how you learn to play the guitar: practice, practice practice.'.  I started classical guitar lessons that very month.  I would get up at 3:00 or 4:00am every day to practice for a few hours before going to work.  I was so very happy to do so.  Being the curious sort, I also studied some music theory.  I can read music, at least the top bar (Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge & FACE), and I learned a little about harmony, melody, intervals and building chords (the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift...) but mostly I loved to practice some of the wonderful little studies I found.  I don't have the stuff to be a performer, but I could lose myself in practice (think of the cello player in the movie 'The Witches of Eastwick'; it was love and lust.)  There came a point where I could see my playing was causing my husband harm, and I stopped.  I think those years were when I was between 35 and 40 years old.  I am still find the guitar thrilling.    


Marsha




On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:04 PM, skutvik at online.no wrote:

> Marsha, Mary, Joe, All.
> 
> Marsha 
>> I stopped drinking many decades ago.  I've stopped smoking.  I never did
>> dangerous drugs, but I have on occasion played with "non-dangerous" drugs
>> (marijuana).  In the end came a realization that even the non-dan gerous
>> drugs might interfere with clear awareness, so I stopped that too.  I
>> still have addictions:  books, laughter, marzipan, music, coffee,,,  This
>> was not social pressure, but a hearts desire.   
> 
> Joe : 
>>> When I fly by the seat of my pants, I like to have a model or
>>> direction-finder for where I am going. As a singer, I prefer the md odel
>>> of the musical octave Do, Re, Mi_Fa, Sol, La, Ti_Do for evolution.  The
>>> thing about the octave is that there are two naturally occurring
>>> intervals Mi_Fa, Ti_Do, at which any mechanical schema breaks down.  If
>>> a pitch is going to double in vibrations the last note of seven is
>>> shocked, and looks to the mi_fa interval for support.
> 
> Mary  
>>> I am fascinated by this.  Daddy bought a cheap Yamaha guitar from Sears
>>> & Roebuck sometime in the late 1960's and started teaching himself to
>>> play. He drove us crazy (Mother and me) playing "Wildwood Flower" over
>>> and over again for years.  I think he worked on it so hard because it
>>> required you to learn pulling off and hammering on.  Anyway, when I was
>>> about 10 he showed me 3 chords (you know you can play any
>>> country-western song ever written in 3 chords), and I was off and
>>> running.  Later on he showed me the circle of fifths.  I don't
>>> understand why it works, but I do know you can use it to transpose a
>>> song from one chord to another.
> 
> This "seat of the pants" phenomenon regarding flying and/or music I 
> will apply to painting as well and wonder if not Marsha will agree? I 
> can't for the life of me tell "how to" paint, I mean I have no particular 
> opening, but like Joe I need a direction-finder (AKA "inspiration"). Mary 
> seems to regret not being able to read music and I too am a bit 
> ashamed that I can't "read paint" if such a comparison is possible? I 
> once had a school class visiting my exhibition -  had promised to say 
> something about my paintings - but this became too difficult and I think 
> the kids sensed how embarrassed I was. I can tell about "literary" 
> connotations of a painting, if one of my "sail & steam" pieces I may 
> imagine some competition over the same woman from the two 
> skippers that leads to reckless behavior, but that's not what people 
> expect, as with music they think that a person who can read the notes 
> can play like Hayfetz and if you know "how to paint" out comes 
> Rembrants. My solace is William Turner, as head of the Royal 
> Academy he was supposed to give a talk on painting once a year, and 
> these were totally inscrutable mumblings. 
> 
> OK, this was not Mary's point her story was great art in itself, and her 
> questions and observation on music's foundations most interesting. It 
> somewhat pertains to what I have been on to lately about "logic itself" 
> that along with some musical basics can't  be violated without 
> everything dissolving. There was the philosopher who wrote about the 
> harmony of the spheres, i.e. that certain proportions must be 
> maintained for the universe to work. I agree with Mary about the 12-
> tone scale music, if Schönberg is a representative here it's horrible 
> and an offense to my ears regardless how much the pundits hammers 
> on this just being a custom. I'm out of my depth regarding music, but I 
> know that when one comes to Greece one hears the more Eastern 
> "twang" the shifting of notes in some gliding fashion, but I believe the 
> basic harmony prevails      
> 
> BTW regarding flying - and if Joe really flies? - there are the new 
> "unstable" fighter aircrafts, the F-16 f.ex, that are dependent on 
> computers to stay in the air, if these fail no pilot regardless skill will be 
> able to fly it. How does this apply to music, painting and art generally? I 
> know that computers can imitate composers' style. If they can imitate 
> painters I haven't heard of, but perhaps, at least regarding modernistic 
> painting no one can see if it is done by a monkey, a computer or 
> human. If some harmonies have to be present? At least there are 
> some disharmonies that will spoil a painting and that adds up to the 
> same.     
> 
> Bodvar          
> 
> PS:
> 
> Mary again:
>>> In a previous post I alluded to the fact that I used serious drugs for a
>>> number of years.  Tomorrow (January 3rd) is the 3rd anniversary of my
>>> disuse.  I have had the time since to ponder the nature of this.  I am
>>> of the opinion that drug use is maligned in our culture because it is
>>> akin to cheating.  I agree.  Using mind-altering drugs to attain a
>>> different state is CHEATING.  This, I believe, is why most straight
>>> people's unexamined gut reaction is negative.  We should use the
>>> equipment we've got, and not attempt to enhance it.  I would love to
>>> know what the MoQ has to say about that.
> 
> I'm impressed by Mary's candor and agree with her conclusions, yet 
> there are drugs and drugs, I don't know if alcohol is regarded one, but 
> there is (almost) no culture on earth that don't have this in some form 
> or other and as social lubricant it has a purpose, but to intoxicate 
> oneself for intoxications own sake is not for me. At least not when 
> painting. . The MOQ implications I leave here.     
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>>> My problem with music is that I was a smart-ass.  I absolutely do not
>>> have perfect pitch.  I can't tell you a true C from a true G to this
>>> day. Perhaps a lot of that has to do with the fact that I never had
>>> anything to tune my guitar to.  But I can sure tune it to itself.  All I
>>> strive for is to get the strings to not be too tight or too loose, then
>>> go from there.  E A D G B E, or so they tell me.
>>> 
>>> When I was 6 my mother started me in piano lessons.  Ha.  I never did
>>> learn to read music, but if I heard something once or twice I could pick
>>> it out. No problem.  This is also known I believe as cheating.  Same
>>> with Clarinet. I was in the band at school and spent a lot of time
>>> vieing with this other girl, whose name I can't remember, for first
>>> chair.  Thing is, I couldn't read music then either.  I'd just pretend
>>> to play through the first cold run-through of anything new, then pick it
>>> up for real on the next go-around.
>>> 
>>> I guess my point is (and I hope it's not on the top of my head :) ) that
>>> I have had a life-long love of singing and playing guitar, but have no
>>> understanding at all of what I am doing.  I just hear music and it is
>>> right or it is wrong.  Is this evidence of Mary having a Dynamic Quality
>>> experience?  Same with rhythm.  The drums are so easy as to be
>>> ridiculous. I once remember being in a drumming circle with some other
>>> heathen women friends of mine.  I brought the whole thing to a halt. 
>>> Each woman would take turns drumming whatever she felt.  When it got to
>>> me I took off on some kind of jazz-like thing with extreme syncopation
>>> (which to me is emphasizing the counter-beat, but I could be totally
>>> wrong about what syncopation actually means).  Anyway, I was off into
>>> some frenzied drumming that was so - I don't know - complicated??? it
>>> brought the whole thing to a halt.  So what's with that?  Where on Earth
>>> does this come from?  To this day I can't stand to listen to a certain
>>> Aerosmith live album because they are off beat on certain songs.  I
>>> think they are either too drunk or too high to stay with it.  IMHO.
>>> 
>>> After this long tirade (can you tell you've struck a "chord" so to
>>> speak?), the question I wanted to ask you is I've heard that the 8 note
>>> octave we westerners use is not the only one.  I haven't Googled this
>>> yet, but I seem to recall that some Asian or Indian music uses a 12 (?)
>>> note scale.  Is this true?  What on Earth?  I can't even imagine what
>>> that would sound like.  Do they have notes that don't exist in Western
>>> music?  This profoundly bothers me because I can't imagine any music
>>> with any other notes between the ones I know of.  I mean, when I'm
>>> having a bad day and singing off key, those are other notes, but that
>>> just means I'm not in control of my voice, and they are BAD.  Can you
>>> explain this?
>>> 
>>> I have no idea how any of this relates to the MoQ, but you brought it
>>> up, after all, and I'm beginning to think that is DOES.  Why do we see
>>> Quality in music constructed using the Western octave?  Is this a
>>> learned response or a fundamental TRUTH of the Universe?  What's up with
>>> music anyway?  Why do we respond so profoundly to it?  Where did it come
>>> from?  Is it something of the Biological Level?  I think it must be
>>> because it is so universal; but, if so, what's the deal with these
>>> different scales?  Why are there scales at all?  Why does a certain
>>> chord progression evoke such an emotional response in us, but not other
>>> chord progressions?  They say music is mathematics.  Yes, even my gut
>>> level understanding of music agrees with that.  Is music the language of
>>> the Universe?  If so, what scale does it use?  8 notes or 12?  Is a
>>> Sitar player more in tune with the Universe than me?  And do you notice
>>> how we use the phrase "in tune"?  There is much wisdom in language that
>>> goes unnoticed.  I have a book somewhere about word origins.  It is
>>> fascinating.  Those that came before us were not dumb.
>>> 
>>> In a previous post I alluded to the fact that I used serious drugs for a
>>> number of years.  Tomorrow (January 3rd) is the 3rd anniversary of my
>>> disuse.  I have had the time since to ponder the nature of this.  I am
>>> of the opinion that drug use is maligned in our culture because it is
>>> akin to cheating.  I agree.  Using mind-altering drugs to attain a
>>> different state is CHEATING.  This, I believe, is why most straight
>>> people's unexamined gut reaction is negative.  We should use the
>>> equipment we've got, and not attempt to enhance it.  I would love to
>>> know what the MoQ has to say about that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> The most important thing you will ever make is a realization.
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...     
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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