[MD] Music and the Moq

[Bruce Underwood]

Hello Marsha, Mary, Joe, All.

This area intrigues me and now that I am back at my computer, I hope you don't mind me jumping in.
I have always had a creative side...dabbling in music, drawing and painting, cooking... anything that seems to touch my soul.  The the act of creating something new and different and having others connect with my creation is a powerful thing. To me, creating and connecting with those around us is that special "what" that is "dynamic quality".  It make our lives better and is "quality".

That said, there is the concept of "talent" verses "learned".  I am not sure exactly how this fits into MoQ, but it may be that some people have been touched by "dynamic quality" that have a greater propensity for doing specific things such as music, art where others simply learn how to do those things.  I do think though that people who learn things can have an "Ah ha moment" where talent meets learned and they create rather then play.  It is not that one is better then the other; they are just different.

I had a friend, Nancy, that learned to play the piano who took lessons all of her life and could play wonderfully well, but the music was stiff and boring.  In my on opinion, I would not say that she created music, but played it.  On the other hand, I had another friend, "Rae", that had never taken music, but could play anything (like you Mary).  Whenever she would touch the piano, it seemed to touch everybody around... It was dynamic even if she was playing the same tune as Nancy. (Rae learned music later and enhanced her abilities)

I am not saying Nancy didn't have talent...she learned to play music that people enjoyed, but Rae had something more... something dynamic..something mystical.  It is that thing when everybody in an audience is somehow connected in one accord. However, I think,some how, that what was different between these two was that Nancy simply played the music that she saw, but Rae could take the music and create something that was new.

>From my own experiance, people, especially my mother, would say that I was so talented and "gifted", but I learned to hate hearing that as there was the implication that I had to do more with "it" than I wanted to or perhaps could.  A learned ability was not seen as a "gift", but a "talent" was seen as a "gift"(from God)... and somehow a sin if I didn't meet someone elses expectation (perhaps God's expectation).  

Anywho, to wrap up,  I see "creating" as Dynamic Quality that can in the form of music, the way music is played,art, writing or anything else that reaches others.  Music seems to reach through to the "soul" and touch people at all levels. Perhaps it is the stimulus from the inorganic level that is reaching a person at all of the other levels: biological, social and intellectual.  (Sound is inorganic and stimulates the ear of the biological level in all that can hear.  It is social for all that hear.  Lyics, rythm and pitch, etc. can be analyzed and studied at the intellectual level.)

Thanks,

Bruce




----------------------------------------
> From: skutvik at online.no
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:04:39 +0100
> Subject: [MD] Music and the Moq
>
> Marsha, Mary, Joe, All.
>
> Marsha
>> I stopped drinking many decades ago. I've stopped smoking. I never did
>> dangerous drugs, but I have on occasion played with "non-dangerous" drugs
>> (marijuana). In the end came a realization that even the non-dan gerous
>> drugs might interfere with clear awareness, so I stopped that too. I
>> still have addictions: books, laughter, marzipan, music, coffee,,, This
>> was not social pressure, but a hearts desire.
>
> Joe :
>>> When I fly by the seat of my pants, I like to have a model or
>>> direction-finder for where I am going. As a singer, I prefer the md odel
>>> of the musical octave Do, Re, Mi_Fa, Sol, La, Ti_Do for evolution. The
>>> thing about the octave is that there are two naturally occurring
>>> intervals Mi_Fa, Ti_Do, at which any mechanical schema breaks down. If
>>> a pitch is going to double in vibrations the last note of seven is
>>> shocked, and looks to the mi_fa interval for support.
>
> Mary
>>> I am fascinated by this. Daddy bought a cheap Yamaha guitar from Sears
>>> & Roebuck sometime in the late 1960's and started teaching himself to
>>> play. He drove us crazy (Mother and me) playing "Wildwood Flower" over
>>> and over again for years. I think he worked on it so hard because it
>>> required you to learn pulling off and hammering on. Anyway, when I was
>>> about 10 he showed me 3 chords (you know you can play any
>>> country-western song ever written in 3 chords), and I was off and
>>> running. Later on he showed me the circle of fifths. I don't
>>> understand why it works, but I do know you can use it to transpose a
>>> song from one chord to another.
>
> This "seat of the pants" phenomenon regarding flying and/or music I
> will apply to painting as well and wonder if not Marsha will agree? I
> can't for the life of me tell "how to" paint, I mean I have no particular
> opening, but like Joe I need a direction-finder (AKA "inspiration"). Mary
> seems to regret not being able to read music and I too am a bit
> ashamed that I can't "read paint" if such a comparison is possible? I
> once had a school class visiting my exhibition - had promised to say
> something about my paintings - but this became too difficult and I think
> the kids sensed how embarrassed I was. I can tell about "literary"
> connotations of a painting, if one of my "sail & steam" pieces I may
> imagine some competition over the same woman from the two
> skippers that leads to reckless behavior, but that's not what people
> expect, as with music they think that a person who can read the notes
> can play like Hayfetz and if you know "how to paint" out comes
> Rembrants. My solace is William Turner, as head of the Royal
> Academy he was supposed to give a talk on painting once a year, and
> these were totally inscrutable mumblings.
>
> OK, this was not Mary's point her story was great art in itself, and her
> questions and observation on music's foundations most interesting. It
> somewhat pertains to what I have been on to lately about "logic itself"
> that along with some musical basics can't be violated without
> everything dissolving. There was the philosopher who wrote about the
> harmony of the spheres, i.e. that certain proportions must be
> maintained for the universe to work. I agree with Mary about the 12-
> tone scale music, if Schönberg is a representative here it's horrible
> and an offense to my ears regardless how much the pundits hammers
> on this just being a custom. I'm out of my depth regarding music, but I
> know that when one comes to Greece one hears the more Eastern
> "twang" the shifting of notes in some gliding fashion, but I believe the
> basic harmony prevails
>
> BTW regarding flying - and if Joe really flies? - there are the new
> "unstable" fighter aircrafts, the F-16 f.ex, that are dependent on
> computers to stay in the air, if these fail no pilot regardless skill will be
> able to fly it. How does this apply to music, painting and art generally? I
> know that computers can imitate composers' style. If they can imitate
> painters I haven't heard of, but perhaps, at least regarding modernistic
> painting no one can see if it is done by a monkey, a computer or
> human. If some harmonies have to be present? At least there are
> some disharmonies that will spoil a painting and that adds up to the
> same.
>
> Bodvar
>
> PS:
>
> Mary again:
>>> In a previous post I alluded to the fact that I used serious drugs for a
>>> number of years. Tomorrow (January 3rd) is the 3rd anniversary of my
>>> disuse. I have had the time since to ponder the nature of this. I am
>>> of the opinion that drug use is maligned in our culture because it is
>>> akin to cheating. I agree. Using mind-altering drugs to attain a
>>> different state is CHEATING. This, I believe, is why most straight
>>> people's unexamined gut reaction is negative. We should use the
>>> equipment we've got, and not attempt to enhance it. I would love to
>>> know what the MoQ has to say about that.
>
> I'm impressed by Mary's candor and agree with her conclusions, yet
> there are drugs and drugs, I don't know if alcohol is regarded one, but
> there is (almost) no culture on earth that don't have this in some form
> or other and as social lubricant it has a purpose, but to intoxicate
> oneself for intoxications own sake is not for me. At least not when
> painting. . The MOQ implications I leave here.
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>>> My problem with music is that I was a smart-ass. I absolutely do not
>>> have perfect pitch. I can't tell you a true C from a true G to this
>>> day. Perhaps a lot of that has to do with the fact that I never had
>>> anything to tune my guitar to. But I can sure tune it to itself. All I
>>> strive for is to get the strings to not be too tight or too loose, then
>>> go from there. E A D G B E, or so they tell me.
>>>
>>> When I was 6 my mother started me in piano lessons. Ha. I never did
>>> learn to read music, but if I heard something once or twice I could pick
>>> it out. No problem. This is also known I believe as cheating. Same
>>> with Clarinet. I was in the band at school and spent a lot of time
>>> vieing with this other girl, whose name I can't remember, for first
>>> chair. Thing is, I couldn't read music then either. I'd just pretend
>>> to play through the first cold run-through of anything new, then pick it
>>> up for real on the next go-around.
>>>
>>> I guess my point is (and I hope it's not on the top of my head :) ) that
>>> I have had a life-long love of singing and playing guitar, but have no
>>> understanding at all of what I am doing. I just hear music and it is
>>> right or it is wrong. Is this evidence of Mary having a Dynamic Quality
>>> experience? Same with rhythm. The drums are so easy as to be
>>> ridiculous. I once remember being in a drumming circle with some other
>>> heathen women friends of mine. I brought the whole thing to a halt.
>>> Each woman would take turns drumming whatever she felt. When it got to
>>> me I took off on some kind of jazz-like thing with extreme syncopation
>>> (which to me is emphasizing the counter-beat, but I could be totally
>>> wrong about what syncopation actually means). Anyway, I was off into
>>> some frenzied drumming that was so - I don't know - complicated??? it
>>> brought the whole thing to a halt. So what's with that? Where on Earth
>>> does this come from? To this day I can't stand to listen to a certain
>>> Aerosmith live album because they are off beat on certain songs. I
>>> think they are either too drunk or too high to stay with it. IMHO.
>>>
>>> After this long tirade (can you tell you've struck a "chord" so to
>>> speak?), the question I wanted to ask you is I've heard that the 8 note
>>> octave we westerners use is not the only one. I haven't Googled this
>>> yet, but I seem to recall that some Asian or Indian music uses a 12 (?)
>>> note scale. Is this true? What on Earth? I can't even imagine what
>>> that would sound like. Do they have notes that don't exist in Western
>>> music? This profoundly bothers me because I can't imagine any music
>>> with any other notes between the ones I know of. I mean, when I'm
>>> having a bad day and singing off key, those are other notes, but that
>>> just means I'm not in control of my voice, and they are BAD. Can you
>>> explain this?
>>>
>>> I have no idea how any of this relates to the MoQ, but you brought it
>>> up, after all, and I'm beginning to think that is DOES. Why do we see
>>> Quality in music constructed using the Western octave? Is this a
>>> learned response or a fundamental TRUTH of the Universe? What's up with
>>> music anyway? Why do we respond so profoundly to it? Where did it come
>>> from? Is it something of the Biological Level? I think it must be
>>> because it is so universal; but, if so, what's the deal with these
>>> different scales? Why are there scales at all? Why does a certain
>>> chord progression evoke such an emotional response in us, but not other
>>> chord progressions? They say music is mathematics. Yes, even my gut
>>> level understanding of music agrees with that. Is music the language of
>>> the Universe? If so, what scale does it use? 8 notes or 12? Is a
>>> Sitar player more in tune with the Universe than me? And do you notice
>>> how we use the phrase "in tune"? There is much wisdom in language that
>>> goes unnoticed. I have a book somewhere about word origins. It is
>>> fascinating. Those that came before us were not dumb.
>>>
>>> In a previous post I alluded to the fact that I used serious drugs for a
>>> number of years. Tomorrow (January 3rd) is the 3rd anniversary of my
>>> disuse. I have had the time since to ponder the nature of this. I am
>>> of the opinion that drug use is maligned in our culture because it is
>>> akin to cheating. I agree. Using mind-altering drugs to attain a
>>> different state is CHEATING. This, I believe, is why most straight
>>> people's unexamined gut reaction is negative. We should use the
>>> equipment we've got, and not attempt to enhance it. I would love to
>>> know what the MoQ has to say about that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> The most important thing you will ever make is a realization.
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...
>>
>>
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>>
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