[MD] Where does logic itself belong inside the MOQ?

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Case 

13 Jan. you said :

> I have long supported the use of information systems metaphors to aid
> in the understanding of how the "mind" works. But this is the first
> time I have heard them used so badly and with so little foundation.
> It's like you are writing them on slips of papers, shaking them up in
> a box and pulling them out one at a time with your eyes closed.
 
> There is precious little about the human nervous system or for that
> matter the rest of our physiology that is "read only". We are dynamic
> interactive systems and the one thing we do, like all living things,
> is interact with and adapt to the world around us. Even our immune
> systems can "learn" through classical conditioning. If you wear tight
> shoes, your skin will learn from in and form blisters and/or
> callouses. 

All right I gladly accept your greater knowledge here, but you 
misunderstand, the human biology is an advanced organism with its 
big - neocortex - brain. The Q-biological LEVEL includes everything 
from plants, bacteria, amoebas to mammals, and the lower strata of 
this level are pretty "hard-wired", if wired at all (no neural system).   

Bo before
> > I guess we agree here, "thinking" or "intelligence" (whatever it's
> > scientific workings are seen from intellect's objective p.o.v.) was once
> > solely in biology's service (still is for the creatures at that level)
> > Then society grew on top of biology and took over intelligence (that now
> > was the human brain's power) and thinking was now applied to the social-
> > value-perceived reality - still is for those who have the "social"
> > outlook. Then - as mentioned - intellect hijacked intelligence and
> > "thinking" became synonymous with "intellect", hence the blind ally you
> > and many of this site are in.  

> [Krimel]
> Your use of anthropomorphic language as always, is misleading and
> misguided. You make it sound like "biology" is running an employment
> service and "intellectual" patterns have to fill out job applications
> with non-compete clauses to get hired. Then you have "thug life"
> intellect car-jackings in blind alleyways... 

I do NOT think biology runs any employment service, but I very much 
know that the lower level becomes employed by the upper, thus the 
biological (in its nature) computer has in turn been (still is )employed 
by the social and intellectual levels in turn,.    

> [Bo]
> > Intellect is the highest and best level so I admire your knowledge
> > about the material workings of the brain, but the MOQ has still to to
> > occupy YOUR intelligence..    
 
> [Krimel]
> If by this you mean I haven't been sucked into being "S.hit O.utta
> L.uck" yet, don't hold your breath.
> By the way, despite your alleged "foray," nothing you say here
> suggests you have the faintest idea of the meanings or distinctions
> between the terms digital and analog.

OK point taken. Your attitude to the MOQ is unclear to me, but never 
mind. You made a "foray" into the "metaphysics" issue yesterday (for 
the benefit of Steve), I didn't catch your point, but I ask you to employ 
your intelligence on the issue at hand which is purely logical not 
particularly MOQish. Namely if Pirsig's Quality/MOQ meta-
metaphysics that Steve wields is logically valid? That there is a 
QUALITY other than the DQ of the MOQ and independent of it? For 
instance if there comes a "metaphysics" that rejects the MOQ it is still 
a "MOQ"?       

For instance Quantum Theory predicts a pretty weird world (the 
"Schrodinger Cat" f.ex) but the physicists deny any "objective" 
Newtonian - even Einsteinian - reality" outside Quantum Theory (QT). 
Now, QT is only necessary for sub.atomic events, ordinary physics 
works fine otherwise. I compare this with the MOQ which is only  
needed for the ultimate view. For ordinary purposes its intellectual 
level - SOM - works fine, but Steve insists on a som-like "objective" 
Quality that the MOQ is just one possible explanation of.This is deeply 
wrong, MOQ's Quality Reality only exists within the MOQ.

Much obliged

Bodvar