[MD] Metaphysics

[X Acto]

No,Steve...analogie is reality..

anything else is SOM..

jump on the wagon..man

drink the kool-aide


 


----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Peterson <peterson.steve at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 9:01:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Metaphysics

Hi Bo,

> Marsha:
>> >>> I can only believe that in spite of the problems, when RMP goes on
>> >>> to create a metaphysics he trying to define reality to the best of
>> >>> his explanatory ability and is not writing a fairy tale.  So I
>> >>> agree with Bo, RMP, in the MoQ, is describing reality.

Bo:
> Right you are. I must at times pinch my arm if I'm awake when reading
> Steve's "strange loops", how he seemingly believes in MOQ's validity,
> but then the next moment says that ANY theory - even if it declares
> MOQ nil and void - is still a MOQ.
...
> Everybody understand what I mean, namely that the MOQ introduces
> the Quality Reality  - in contrast to the SOM (that the MOQ relegates a
> static level position within its own) The fallacy that must be weeded out
> is the notion that the SOM - while dominant - was a "MOQ"  and that a
> future X metaphysics  that rejects the MOQ still is a "MOQ". It really
> need no weeding, no one with their faculties intact adheres to it

Steve:
I don't just make this stuff up, Bo. Why are you making this personal?

Pirsig specifically said that subject-object metaphysics is a
metaphysics of Quality, and that he could think of a huge number of
ways of dividing Quality such as the romantic-classic experiment in
ZAMM. As usual, you are disagreeing with Pirsig's MOQ, not with me,
and your insults about not having faculties intact apply to him since
it is with him that you disagree.

>From Lila:
"Actually the issue before him was not whether there should be a
metaphysics of Quality or not.  There already is a metaphysics of
quality.  A subject-object metaphysics is in fact a metaphysics in
which the first division of Quality-the first slice of undivided
experience-is into subjects and objects. Once you have made that
slice, all of human experience is supposed to fit into one of these
two boxes.  The trouble is, it doesn't.  What he had seen is that
there is a metaphysical box that sits
above these two boxes, Quality itself.  And once he'd seen this he
also saw a huge number of ways in which Quality can be divided.
Subjects and objects are just one of the ways. The question was, which
way was best?"

Steve:
Pirsig then goes on to describe his static-dynamic slicing of Quality,
which he never says is the best of all possible ways of slicing
Quality. It's just the best one he could think of. Reality is Quality,
but the static-dynamic slicing of Reality is just an analogy.

Best,
Steve


Phædrus says, "All this is just an analogy."

Silence. And then confusion appears on the Chairman’s face. "What?" he
says. The spell of his performance is broken.

"This entire description of the chariot and horses is just an analogy."

"What?" he says again, then loudly, "It is the truth! Socrates has
sworn to the Gods that it is the truth!"

Phædrus replies, "Socrates himself says it is an analogy."

"If you will read the dialogue you will find that Socrates
specifically states it is the Truth!"

"Yes, but prior to that—in, I believe, two paragraphs—he has stated
that it is an analogy."

The text is on the table to consult but the Chairman has enough sense
not to consult it. If he does and Phædrus is right, his classroom face
is completely demolished. He has told the class no one has read the
book thoroughly.

Rhetoric, 1; Dialectic, 0.

Fantastic, Phædrus thinks, that he should have remembered that. It
just demolishes the whole dialectical position. That may just be the
whole show right there. Of course it’s an analogy. Everything is an
analogy. But the dialecticians don’t know that. That’s why the
Chairman missed that statement of Socrates. Phædrus has caught it and
remembered it, because if Socrates hadn’t stated it he wouldn’t have
been telling the "Truth."
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