[MD] Metaphysics

[markhsmit]

Hi Marsha,
I'm not sure what you mean by more moral and logical.
Those terms are defined through convention.  I suppose
that within that convention what you state is true.  But only 
within that convention.  What about outside of that?

There is the educational God, which is an intellectual concept
that as such goes no further than ones thoughts.  There is 
the found God, that is not acquired educationally.  This is a
God that transcends the intellect.  Such a God is then translated
to the intellect in order to describe it to others and for no other
reason.  Those seeking to describe it find themselves at a loss
for words, since it is not an intellectual concept.  The MoQ does
not state anything.  There is no God of the MoQ who is making
the rules at this point.  This is an open discussion to come to 
terms with a personal sense of MoQ.  The intellectual part of
this philosophy is only a simple translation.  If you doubt me,
go ahead and describe Quality in more than just a few catch
phrases with ambiguous meaning.

Quality is reality is experience is a poor substitution of words
for the truth.  Your Quality is your reality is your experience is
closer to the truth.  If I deny experience then I deny your reality,
not mine.  If Quality is reality, then why was it called Quality?
Does this lend a larger sense of reality than the term reality?

I think it is great that you believe that reality is experience.  If
you describe to me what exactly you mean by these words, that
is derive a complex set of equalities, you can form a better picture
for me of your belief.  Once you create a picture with feeling
you get a little closer to that you are seeking.  Then you can
drop the words entirely and be Quality not objectify it as
a concept.  This is one way to break the SOM.

Cheers,
Mark

On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:34:07 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
From:   MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
Subject:    Re: [MD] Metaphysics
Date:   January 14, 2010 1:34:07 AM PST
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

Hi Mark,

I would think that not to believe in God would be the more moral and 
logical decision. God is a social construction taught and assumed 
since childhood. The MoQ states that Quality is reality is experience.
Will you deny experience?


Marsha



On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:51 PM, markhsmit wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> Yes, analogies or systems all the way down and up. Which is of course
> an analogy in itself. You speak of the liberty of belief in one thing or
> another. I do not believe that exists. Can one force him/herself to
> believe in something. Belief exists because it feels right, not because it
> is convenient. If a belief in God is not intellectual, then no belief is. It is 
> easy to confuse complexity for intellect, but it is all the same, to me at
> least.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 12:04:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [MD] Metaphysics
> Date: January 11, 2010 12:04:59 AM PST
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> 
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 12:59 AM, markhsmit wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Very interesting post. It kind of has the ring of analogues all the way
> down. I do like that, but in my understanding, conventionally, or statically
> speaking, some patterns are conventionally more useful than others. 
> This would make the levels more important. Should I be a "believer" in
> God because it's a social imperative? If it's to avoid being burned at the 
> stake, it might be a smart idea to state that one believes in God, but for
> any intellectual reason, then I don't think so. 
> 
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Bodvar to virtually all of us:
>> 
>> Yes, you bet, metaphysics in the the true MOQ sense is reality, that's
>> the very point!
> 
>> Hello Bodvar and All:
>> When I read this, something dawned on me but couldn?t give it
>> expression until I lay, quietly on my electric blanket (it is fucking
>> freezing here!).
>> Then it came to me...the passage in ZMM (I think) where Phaedrus has a
>> conversation with a priest and they are talking about the liturgy, the
>> most sacred part: when the wine changes into blood, and the bread
>> changes into the body of Christ. Phaedrus asks along the lines of;
>> (sorry I do not have a copy of ZMM with me) yes, but this is
>> symbolically..yeS??. No! says the priest, this is real. At that
>> moment, the wine and bread change into the actual blood and body of
>> Jesus Christ!
>> Christians all over the world actually and factually believe that this
>> is indeed the case. And, further more, the Bible is of course seen,
>> not as a book full of stories ( if I may take the liberty, as a book
>> full of fingers pointing to the moon!!) but as the actual word of God.
> 
>> [Mark]: In response to Andre.
>> So Andre, you believe that it is not the word of God. Let me remind
>> you that that is a belief too, no more or less than to believe it is.
>> However, your posts sounds rather righteous, as if you believe
>> that your belief is correct. How did you get to this higher level?
>> How is it that your belief somehow is more right than, say, a
>> Christian's? In fact your belief is so blind, that you think that
>> it is somehow outside the system of beliefs, somehow the right way to
>> believe. Once you realize the relative nature of beliefs,
>> that is, that they are just opinions, you may see a little more.
>> So, yes, the wine is the blood of Christ to those that believe it,
>> and it is not to those who believe otherwise. There is
>> no right or wrong, unless you believe you are God. But of course if
>> your system of belief is that there isn't one, then you are something
>> else that is all knowing, or not. There is a God and there isn't a
>> God, both are correct. No need to take sides.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
> 
> 
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