[MD] Where does logic itself belong inside the MOQ?

[John Carl]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Magnus Berg <McMagnus at home.se> wrote:

> Hi Craig
>
>
>  [ Mary]
>>
>>>   What is beyond the edge of the Universe?
>>> This is what I want Pirsig to explain.
>>>
>>
>> If so, you are on a fool's errand.
>> Craig
>>
>
>
Magnus:



> I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
>
> We know roughly how old the universe is and how large it is.


John:

You and Krimel must waych the same shows, to be so cocky with your editorial
wheeeee....

So how much space does space fill, anyway?  How old is time?

Please oh intellectually enlightened ones who watch the right tv shows,
please tell  me the exact number of the ten thousand things.



> If the expanding universe is *not* replacing some other stuff occupying the
> space that it is expanding into, then you need to explain how that is done.
> That would be a completely new process to science, right?
>
> I can go on for quite a while longer,


John:

Of that I'm positive.

Magnus:


but what I want to say is that the question is far from foolish. At the very
> least, it will result in another question.
>
>
John:

 At the very most, it will also result in another question.   What we
metaphysicians term  a "fool's errand".  Says one book, "Canst thou by
searching find out the most high?"  Says another,  "But the phrase "the Ten
Thousand Things" was the product of minds incapable of counting and
cataloguing every particular variety of creature and substance, and this
incapability sprang not from an inability to count or catalogue, but from a
lack of the stupidity requisite to such numerical undertakings."

I realize that trying to figure what lies outside the universe and how old
time is aren't numerical undertakings exactly, but they strike me in much
the same way.

"One's brief sojourn between Heaven and Earth was recognized as being so
precious, and one's goal (called "*Tao", *though it was Nameless) was seen
as being so worthy of all one's thought and endeavor, that "Ten Thousand
Things" were considered a sufficient number to familiarize the pilgrim with
the Nature of things.  "Ten Thousand Things" is no childish synonym for
"lots and lots of things": it is a phrase that implies horizontal limits to
man's comprehension; it is a phrase that implies that these horizontal
limits should be self-imposed, and that Tao must be sought through vertical,
transrational leaps; it is a phrase that implies that one cannot seek while
forever counting; it is a phrase that implies that Tao will finally be found
in the *nature* and not in the *number* of things."


 *nature*-lovin' John