[MD] Pantheism as Seen by the MOQ

[John Carl]

Harumph, Platt, who said anything about pantheism?

You said "Mother Nature worshipper" Did you think Pantheism is the same as
nature worship?

Worship means, "that from which we get our values".  If I worship money,
then making money has the highest value for me.  If I worship nature, then
nature has the highest value for me.  If I'm a pantheist in the traditional
sense, then I believe in objectified aspects of nature, reified as "gods"
and my actual worship is of a set of cultural beliefs within the context of
a whole culture.

So pardon me for defending you if by "nature worship", you meant
"pantheism".  I take it back.

I am not a pantheist, but I am a nature worshipper.  Nature is life, the
life force is the only definition of good that makes sense to a pragmatist.


Green John


On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> Pantheism is the religion of SOM science which, as the quoted passage
> makes clear, is responsible for the belief that man's "whole life is that
> of
> an animal that lives and thinks like any other animal." The MOQ doesn't
> support such a warped view.
>
> Best,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Jan 2010 at 11:56, John Carl wrote:
>
> > Greetings Arlo,
> >
> > You are both absolutely right and absolutely wrong in your reaction to
> > Platt's post.  You are right when you point out that Platt's Pirsig quote
> > actually supports, nurtures and reinforces the "Worshippers of Mother
> Nature
> > in the church of environmentalism".  You are wrong though in your
> analysis
> > of his reason for doing so.
> >
> > You really, really have  issues with this guy, I know.  But it blinds you
> > somewhat to what he actually says.
> >
> > Heck, you've got such blinder on concerning Platt, you even only see me
> in
> > relation to him!:
> >
> > "With John, I don't know, he admits to being ignorant about theories
> > of emergence, but this does not seemingly stop him from (at the very
> > least) supporting Platt's sophomoric mischaracterization."
> >
> > See?  What I say doesn't matter nearly as much as whether it support's
> > Platt's position.
> >
> > Isn't that a bit dogmatic?
> >
> > But hey, don't take it as criticism.  Knock yourself out if that's what
> you
> > enjoy.  Personally, I hate shadowboxing and losing.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > [Platt]
> > >
> > > Worshippers of Mother Nature in the church of environmentalism would do
> > > well to ponder the following passage from Pirsig's MOQ:
> > >
> > > [Arlo]
> > > Sometimes you are so blinded by your zeal to post your pet quotes, you
> miss
> > > the irony that they actually support the very thing you think you are
> > > attacking. Aside from the moronic conflation here, and the always
> insipid
> > > attempt to paint environmentalism broadly as a "theism", your quote
> serves
> > > the notion that the lack of connectedness in modern society is a result
> of
> > > "theism" (separating "man" not only from his environment but denying
> > > interconnectedness in toto), as opposed to "pantheistic" thinking. The
> > > "scientific intellectual culture" of "millions of isolated people"
> stems
> > > from the S/O bent of Western Culture, a view that "man" is somehow
> forever
> > > "outside", an observer, a dis-connected isolated thing- the opposite
> view
> > > from those your deceptive rhetoric tries to attack. If you are going to
> use
> > > your pet quotes, at least take the time to make sure you understand
> them.
> > >
> > > "I know what it is! We've arrived at the West Coast! We're all
> strangers
> > > again! Folks, I just forgot the biggest gumption trap of all. The
> funeral
> > > procession! The one everybody's in, this hyped-up, fuck-you,
> supermodern,
> > > ego style of life that thinks it owns this country. We've been out of
> it for
> > > so long I'd forgotten all about it." (ZMM)
>
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