[MD] Pantheism as Seen by the MOQ

[plattholden at gmail.com]

Hey John,

Comments below.

On 15 Jan 2010 at 15:58, John Carl wrote:

> Harumph, Platt, who said anything about pantheism?
> 
> You said "Mother Nature worshipper" Did you think Pantheism is the same as
> nature worship?

Yep. Among the worshippers are groups like Greenpeace and the 
Audubon Society, also known as the watermelon crowd. 

> Worship means, "that from which we get our values".  If I worship money,
> then making money has the highest value for me.  If I worship nature, then
> nature has the highest value for me.  If I'm a pantheist in the traditional
> sense, then I believe in objectified aspects of nature, reified as "gods"
> and my actual worship is of a set of cultural beliefs within the context of
> a whole culture.
> 
> So pardon me for defending you if by "nature worship", you meant
> "pantheism".  I take it back.
> 
> I am not a pantheist, but I am a nature worshipper.  Nature is life, the
> life force is the only definition of good that makes sense to a pragmatist.

I equate the life force with Dynamic Quality, a moral force as real and as 
powerful as the forces of gravity, electromagnetism, and strong and 
weak atomic. Otherwise, the rise of life from non-life cannot be 
explained other than "Oops."

Regards,
Platt.  



> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hey John,
> >
> > Pantheism is the religion of SOM science which, as the quoted passage
> > makes clear, is responsible for the belief that man's "whole life is that
> > of
> > an animal that lives and thinks like any other animal." The MOQ doesn't
> > support such a warped view.
> >
> > Best,
> > Platt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 Jan 2010 at 11:56, John Carl wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings Arlo,
> > >
> > > You are both absolutely right and absolutely wrong in your reaction to
> > > Platt's post.  You are right when you point out that Platt's Pirsig quote
> > > actually supports, nurtures and reinforces the "Worshippers of Mother
> > Nature
> > > in the church of environmentalism".  You are wrong though in your
> > analysis
> > > of his reason for doing so.
> > >
> > > You really, really have  issues with this guy, I know.  But it blinds you
> > > somewhat to what he actually says.
> > >
> > > Heck, you've got such blinder on concerning Platt, you even only see me
> > in
> > > relation to him!:
> > >
> > > "With John, I don't know, he admits to being ignorant about theories
> > > of emergence, but this does not seemingly stop him from (at the very
> > > least) supporting Platt's sophomoric mischaracterization."
> > >
> > > See?  What I say doesn't matter nearly as much as whether it support's
> > > Platt's position.
> > >
> > > Isn't that a bit dogmatic?
> > >
> > > But hey, don't take it as criticism.  Knock yourself out if that's what
> > you
> > > enjoy.  Personally, I hate shadowboxing and losing.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > [Platt]
> > > >
> > > > Worshippers of Mother Nature in the church of environmentalism would do
> > > > well to ponder the following passage from Pirsig's MOQ:
> > > >
> > > > [Arlo]
> > > > Sometimes you are so blinded by your zeal to post your pet quotes, you
> > miss
> > > > the irony that they actually support the very thing you think you are
> > > > attacking. Aside from the moronic conflation here, and the always
> > insipid
> > > > attempt to paint environmentalism broadly as a "theism", your quote
> > serves
> > > > the notion that the lack of connectedness in modern society is a result
> > of
> > > > "theism" (separating "man" not only from his environment but denying
> > > > interconnectedness in toto), as opposed to "pantheistic" thinking. The
> > > > "scientific intellectual culture" of "millions of isolated people"
> > stems
> > > > from the S/O bent of Western Culture, a view that "man" is somehow
> > forever
> > > > "outside", an observer, a dis-connected isolated thing- the opposite
> > view
> > > > from those your deceptive rhetoric tries to attack. If you are going to
> > use
> > > > your pet quotes, at least take the time to make sure you understand
> > them.
> > > >
> > > > "I know what it is! We've arrived at the West Coast! We're all
> > strangers
> > > > again! Folks, I just forgot the biggest gumption trap of all. The
> > funeral
> > > > procession! The one everybody's in, this hyped-up, fuck-you,
> > supermodern,
> > > > ego style of life that thinks it owns this country. We've been out of
> > it for
> > > > so long I'd forgotten all about it." (ZMM)