[MD] Pirsig and Jaynes in Bo's Meta-blender

[Krimel]

[Dave]
Fear of the word "mind' seems to be a whole school of thought. Ditto on
"self" and "consciousness" Pirsig's rhetoric in ZaMM adds fuel and a
misunderstanding of Zen more.

[Krimel]
They are horrible words, full of ambiguity. Almost no one agree on what they
mean. When I see them in a sentence I just know confusion is about to ensue.

[Dave]
Austin's detailed recap of this research in "Zen and the Brain" does the
same. He goes so far as suggest that within a few years that science will
prove that mystical experiences are nothing more than psychological and
physiological states that can be induced with practice. Just like Buddha
claimed 2500 years ago. I saw the Dali Lama on PBS the other night pushing
for more testing. Now isn't that a refreshing approach on science coming
from a religious leader.

[Krimel]
I believe the Dali Lama sees this kind of research as a way to improve
Buddhist practice. It is refreshing to see a religious leader embrace new
ways of thinking rather than be threatened by them.

[Dave]
He also says that contrary popular belief Buddhism does not teach or preach
that there is no "Self". But uses koans that seem to say that as tools to
rebalance the brain so that rather than the ego's normal state of
(I,ME,MINE) on the left side, with practice it is toned down to (i.me,
mine.)  And the right side's attention is ramped up, or more in tune with
the "other". Also these changes with practice can lead to permanent physical
and biological change. Of course as a scientist he poses all this as
hypothesis waiting to be confirmed by further testing.

[Krimel]
Right is not the idea of self that is the problem but what we make of it.
Kind of like the "love" of money is the root of all evil. Love of self is
what is evil.

There are a number of Buddhist ideas that are beautiful when stripped of
their new age connotations. I am thinking of Maya, "not this, not that", and
the beginner's mind

[Dave]
 The current downside is that on average it takes something like 20 to 30
years of pretty much full time dedicated practice to reach these levels and
only 10% who try ever make it to that level.

[Krinml]
In his excellent book "Outliers" Malcolm Gladwell talks about the seemingly
universal fact that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to get really good at
anything.