[MD] Metaphysics

[markhsmit]

Hi Marsha, John,

[Marsha]
> I think what is dangerous is not to understand the nature of
> all static patterns of value. There lies the freedom to choose. imho 

[Mark]
I think Marsha is referring to the Nature of patterns, not to the
individual patterns themselves.

By your perception, or belief, John, Marsha's statement does not work,
as you believe the subjective denies the objective.  This is 
similar to Ham's sensibility.  Marsha believes in the objective,
that is, what exists both within and outside of our experience.
It is hard to debate when the fundamental tenants start at 
different places.  I suppose the debate should be who's
starting point has more Quality.  A subjective viewpoint
can be argued to be more amoral.  However, the objective
view often tries to define morality.

Did morality exist before man?  Is it a fundamental
truth?  MoQ would argue that it is.

Mark 
I still don't quite understand Marsha,

I meant that if you are not invested or attached,
> in them as representing an absolute, unchangeable,
> independent Reality, then you can start
> considering their value.
>


Do you mean by this that static patterns of value exist completely apart
from myself? I can't quite see how they could when it's by my choice of
value systems that they exist for me in the form I perceive them at all.

I only know the true value of things I care most about! My caring and
investment and attachment are the only way I know of expressing what I value
and continuing to choose it.

"unchangeable doesn't make sense in the moment of perception, it only makes
sense after time and something doesn't change. Or does.

If you mean something different, by all means please clarify, but if you
mean what you say in your post, I'm gonna argue with you.

That used to be Lu's joking reference to "wait till your father comes home -
he's gonna argue with you." My kids hated to argue with me, still do.

John feeling all fiesty...
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