[MD] Are theists irrational?

[MarshaV]

I love you John...   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVkEKcSoFE&feature=related  

 
 
 
 

On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:42 PM, John Carl wrote:

> Marsha,
> 
> I ask because I'm curious.  I ask because I'm taking a poll of those that
> see a distinction between atheist and anti-theist and I ask because
> definitions of terms are socially agreed upon.
> 
> 
> I answer because I'm too polite to say "FUCK your question;  your question
> makes me out to be whatever you want to see."
> 
> 
> I don't mind  being whatever it is you need me to be.
> 
> 
> John the agreeable
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:06 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> My definition?  Why should I have such a definition?  It's from the
>> Copleston annotations.  An online dictionary states the definition
>> as: A disbeliever in the existence of God.
>> 
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anti+theist
>> 
>> Why do you ask?
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:28 AM, John Carl wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> 
>>> What's your definition of an anti-theist?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:08 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Mark (Bruce mentioned),
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> It seems for you, Mark, that the loss of God is low value, although I
>> might
>>>> question how much discomfort is 'some discomfort'.  My definition of an
>>>> atheist is:  Atheists are people who believe that god or gods (or other
>>>> supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, myths and legends or
>>>> who believe that these concepts are not meaningful.  I do not find the
>>>> disappointment that Bruce suggested was mandatory for atheists.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:35 PM, markhsmit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> For me Quality equals God, so I can't drop the term without some
>>>> discomfort.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is completely
>>>> dropped as a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and
>> Dynamic
>>>> freedom. The MOQ is not just atheistic in this regard. It is
>> anti-theistic."
>>>>> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Bruce Underwood wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello all, I hope that you don't mind me jumping in on this thread,
>> but
>>>> here it goes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Science: Science, in my opinion, ask a separate question than
>> religion.
>>>> Science asks,"how" and religion asks "why". However,one thing that folks
>>>> want to do is to make science into a belief. IMO, science in merely a
>> method
>>>> devised at the intellectual level to ask "how" things are made, work,
>>>> operate, etc. Science is not something to believe in, but a set of tool
>> to
>>>> explore. That said,it has become the "church of science",as Pirsig puts
>> it,
>>>> and has become something that people worship.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Religion: Religion, on the other hand, firstly, attempts to look
>> beyond
>>>> the now into unknown world of "why", but where its rudderless obsessions
>> of
>>>> control, combined with ignorance, along with the thought "that man can
>> know
>>>> the mind of God" has placed it in categories of distrust and hypocrisy.
>>>> Regardless of the fairy tales that have been created over the
>> millennium,
>>>> there exists the unknown that moves and organize things against the laws
>> of
>>>> nature. In MoQ we call it Dynamic Quality. The thing is, MoQ, at least,
>>>> provides the possibilty, with argument, for "God" to exist by whatever
>> name
>>>> you want to give it. The purpose of religion should be to move life
>> forward
>>>> and to give man hope. Where faith comes in is in the hope that there is
>> more
>>>> to life than existance; I believe MoQ does that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The section below is from chapter 11 of Lila.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Thermodynamics states that all energy systems "run down" like a clock
>>>> and
>>>>>> never rewind themselves. But life not only "runs up," converting low
>>>>>> energy sea-water, sunlight and air into high-energy chemicals, it
>> keeps
>>>>>> multiplying itself into more and better clocks that keep "running up"
>>>>>> faster and faster.
>>>>>> Why, for example, should a group of simple, stable compounds of
>> carbon,
>>>>>> hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen struggle for billions of years to
>> organize
>>>>>> themselves into a professor of chemistry? What's the motive?...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The question is: Then why does nature reverse this process? What on
>>>> earth
>>>>>> causes the inorganic compounds to go the other way? It isn't the sun's
>>>>>> energy. We just saw what the sun's energy did. It has to be something
>>>>>> else. What is it?... Dynamic Quality"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Theist, Agnostic, Atheist: IMO, the only person without faith is the
>>>> agnostic that does not search for the "truth". However, the one who
>> searches
>>>> for truth will always be disappointed as a theist or atheist unless he
>>>> accepts the lies in either camp. The truth is somewhere in the middle
>> and is
>>>> found in the journey itself. MoQ is the closet thing that points to the
>>>> truth that I have found.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My graphical representation of this found on slide 20 of the ppt deck
>>>> that I provided a couple of weeks back. Here is the link:
>>>>>> http://www.thinnerself.com/files/MoQ/lila-6a.ppt
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...