[MD] Intellect's Symposium

[MarshaV]

Hi John,


On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:55 PM, John Carl wrote:

> John:
> I'm not a religious person either Marsha, but boy what you describe sure
> seems like what religious people seek, that annihilation of self, that
> feeling of non-cognitive control, the euphoria.
> 
> It seem  very similar to an experience people seek in church when they're
> "caught up in the spirit" babbling in an unknown tongue, fainting, or
> engaging in a charismatic service - a  non-verbal, non-cognitive experience
> which, without words or concepts confirms in their being a reality they
> don't normally experience.
> 
> I never sought it out, I'm too verbal.  I like my own train of thought, I'm
> attached to cognition and I've often wondered why "solitary confinement" is
> considered a punishment.  I'd think in prison it'd be nothing but relief to
> get away from everybody for a while.

Marsha:
I once made a ten-second delayed freefall.  That was very exciting too, it expanded my experience of time, but I cannot imagine anyone translating my excitement into such a silly religious experience as cited above..  You're as ridiculous as Bo converting my unpatterned experience into unpatterned bliss.  You say there are no such experiences as unpatterned experiences, I say there are.  Convincing you is not my intention.


> 
>> Marsha:
>> I'm not a religious person and have no idea what a religious experience
>> would be.
>> 
>> For weeks it felt like something was going to happen, like my mind was
>> squinting, or something, and then it happened.  It was visual.  I was seeing
>> but their were no thoughts in my head, but I was aware.  It was seeing, but
>> not seeing anything.   It lasted about 5 minutes, no less, but I don't know
>> for sure.  I was flabbergasted because it was so obvious.  OMG, unpatterned
>> experience!!!  Or, OMG I was totally aware without thinking.  And then I
>> began not to believe my own experience, so I did on my own.  Naturally, I
>> was excited.  The next day I did it again of my own volition.  I was
>> overjoyed, of course.  It was wonderful.  It was amazing.  I tried it again
>> about a week later, and made it happen, but I haven't tried it since, which
>> is sad.  Life interfered, or more probably I'm lazy and ungrateful.  But it
>> was "real".  Yet it's no big deal; it's what naturally happens.  I guess.
>> Oh, I don't know; I don't know anything.
>> 
>> I do not often enough sit in meditation, but do try to keep a mindfulness
>> throughout my day.  I think there is a relationship, but I'm guessing.  I
>> had a very formal meditation practice for a few years and was able to watch
>> my thoughts.  I have no trouble saying that's watching patterns flicker
>> through mind, and that is why I go on about Quality (unpatterned experience
>> and patterned experience); both have been experienced.
>> 
> 
> John:
> Well, I guess I'm too metaphysically picky, like I said before.  Because I
> see what you describe as "differently patterned" experience.  "non-normal
> patterns of experience" rather than "UNpatterned".  But I do understand
> better now what you mean by the term, and this helps my understanding.
> Thanks.

ok


> 
>> Marsha:
>> Maybe you'll think I have just described indigestion.  Maybe if I hadn't
>> had such experiences I'd think the same thing.
>> 
> John:
> Nah, I've seen people in the throes of non-cognitive religious ecstasy at
> rock concerts and certain worship services, it's way different than
> indigestion.  I believe you.


Marsha:
The question might be, what have you imagined for me?


Marsha  


  
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