[MD] Intellect's Symposium

[markhsmit]

On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:26:01 AM, Mary <marysonthego at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello John!

[I said]
the Intellectual Level is a STATIC Level. It is not the be-all end-all of
reality. Pirsig says this.

[then you said]
If by "STATIC" we mean "definitionaly bound", well I simply disagree. Where
do you draw the upper boundary of intellectual patterning? Because once you
get it bound, you talk about it, objectify and use it conceptually in
further formulations which grow the old boundaries.
-----

I think you can draw the upper boundary of intellectual patterning at the
point where the subject meets the object - where the subjective rubber meets
the objective road. I think the limit of the intellectual level stops at
the point where we try to conceptualize anything in terms other than
subjects and objects. This is why I am almost 99% in Bodvar's Intellectual
Level = SOM camp at this point. Give me one example where you are able to
conceptualize anything without presupposing a viewer and a viewed and I will
probably be able to say that is an example of transcending the Intellectual
Level to enter the realm of pre-intellectual awareness - otherwise known as
Quality. What do you think?

Mary

Hi Mary,
What you ask is a meaningless question by definition.  Conceptualization
requires an objective view.  You are asking to conceptualize without 
conceptualizing.  The zen method does what you are asking in terms of
pre-intellectual awareness.  It does this though mindfullness.  Others
have likened this to living in the NOW or moment, which I believe 
misses the whole point.  By my interpretation of your analogy of
Quality, Zen masters are fully aware of Quality, but they do not
call it that because it would be giving it a subjective stance.
What do you think?

IMHO, of course,
Mark