[MD] Intellect's Symposium

[David Thomas]

Bo
 
>  First of all there is no SOM outside the MOQ which claims
> that SOM has two camps:the S=idealists and the O=materialists.
Ok you are agreeing with Strawson that SOM is a strawman that Pirsig created
and defined as having two camps. But then go right on to say...
    
> A little history lesson: SOM emerged as the search for eternal
> principles. 
...and trace SOM's history back again to the Greeks. Is this still a myth
made up by Pirsig, or an account of "real" history or what? You can't have
it both ways. The usual role of strawman arguments are to tear them apart,
debunk them. Why is it that you want to make a strawman, a debunked theory,
the highest stable pattern of quality that man can achieve? And then go on
to claim that this is eternally fixed, can never and will never change?
Hell, this is dogma that even a Pope could not swallow.

> not until Pirsig has Western
> philosophy moved forward after Kant.

Just because you believe that neither philosophy nor science progressed in
the period between1804 and 1991, doesn't make it so.  I doubt you will find
any philosophers, scientists, or lay person who will agree with you. That
includes Pirsig. The concept "empiricism" continued to evolve after Locke,
Hume etc and is still doing so today. Your refusal to accept open ended
change and evolution in over time in both "thoughts" and "things" is key to
your constant misinterpretation of Pirsig's work. Just changing the words
thoughts and things to some kind of pattern of value does not make this
statement have any higher or lower value.
> 
>> Our experience indicates that overtime "concepts of thought" develop in
>> the mind to help order experience. Some may be inventions of the mind,
>> but most often these are not conscience decisions but adoptions based
>> on similar experience and knowledge shared within social groups.
> 
I know, I know,  your inordinate fear of "mind." Or it is of losing it? I
generally try not to run and hide in the closet upon hearing about ancient
"thought experiments." A very useful, pragmatic, and crafty one that
Descartes made in part to free himself from forceful intervention of the
Church into his life and work. If "mind" and "soul" were analogous then
religious thinkers need get their panties is a wad over a few mathematical
theories about nature's machines. He was not entirely successful in his
ruse. But science never is.

Dave


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