[MD] Reading & Comprehension

[skutvik at online.no]

John the mystified.

31 May. 

Bo before:
> > My worry - and why I fight the Buchanan faction - is that intellect's
> > control of society  can't be carried out if the MOQ is allowed into the
> > intellectual level. The MOQ can't control social value, only the level
> > that is "out of society", namely  intellect can do that. 

John:
> By objectifying social patterns, you're saying.
>  It makes sense, to a point.  But I can't go all the way with you Bo.
 
Where did the "objectifying social patterns" enter the picture? There is 
no S/O distinction in the MOQ outside its intellectual level. 

> I am fully convinced the MoQ CAN control social patterns at least as
> well as SOM, and to my perspective, much better.  Mainly because SOM
> has no grasp of how to reach DQ.  It just trusts in sq and hopes for
> revelation of some kind.  

This way of putting things is a bit weird. SOM - i.e. intellect before the 
MOQ - had no inkling about any Q context thus its "social" was not the 
3rd. Q level, nor had its social control anything to do with MOQ's  "level 
control".       

> MoQ actually presents a framework for teaching how to have a DQ
> realization, recognizing it when it occurs, and assigning appropriate
> value to the realization in light of levels analysis. 

Granted, DQ only exists in the MOQ as does the static levels. Before 
the MOQ  existence was a material world observed by minds. SOM 
called it matter first imbued with life then with mind.   

> But technically speaking, all intellectual control of social patterns
> is done through other social patterns.  In other words, only social
> patterns control social pattern. 

Well John, I see your point but it's skewed. In the US as in all intellect-
dominated Western culture the social control apparatus - police, 
judicial system, prison, everything - is intellect-controlled through and 
through, this is what's meant by intellectual control - perhaps 
"subduing" would have been better - while in a society-dominated 
culture control of BIOLOGY is the focus - f.ex. the  muslim countries. 
These communities are Q-social heavens but Q-intellectual 
nightmares but  for some reasons they like it that way   

> Intellect guides the decision making when social patterns are
> considering which way to go in their control options, 

Right, that's it.

> but intellect formed operating out of  SOM is much, much worse than
> intellect in a MoQ context at doing this. 
 
Well, "worse" depends. SOM is intellect oblivious of its Q role and 
did/does not know when to stop its social subduction, even the 
necessary social subduction of biology became the target of 
intellectuals. Police became class-cops and all detention of criminals 
became untenable, these criminal were innocent victims of social 
injustice ... you know the harangue. The Q-intellect on the other hand 
knows the level context and will not interfere with the "good" social 
control of biology.  

> The fact that the MoQ is NOT guiding intellect which is guiding social
> patterns, is a big reason why the world is in the mess it is today. 
> But if the MoQ were not pragmatically superior to SOM, I wouldn't be
> here.

Amen!


Bo before:
> > This making
> > intellect the home of the MOQ destroys intellect and may lead to the
> > same situation described in LILA page 312)  but now with
> > intellectual deterioration the issue

John:
> The MoQ is the home of intellect, not the other way around and I think
> everybody would agree with this statement.  So I'm not sure why you
> assert otherwise.

Right, If you mean that intellect is a MOQ level, not the MOQ an 
intellectual pattern, we agree, but regrettably the latter "credo" rules in  
orthodox camp so I'm compelled to point to it.

John:
> PS:  I hope you appreciate RMP's words on Art and the MoQ as much as I
> did, Bo, and kudos to Mary for posting!t

I do in the "Art a quality endeavor" sense, but again, quality in painting, 
in music, in writing in carpentry  ...  whatever. If this is static from the 
MOQ p.o.v. let it be, nothing bad with an agreed-on beauty in painting 
for instance, it has an infinite repertoire of expressions. It's the 
suggestion of teaching a super-Quality apart from the DQ/SQ I protest. 
Oh yes tons of praise for Mary, it left me absolutely awe-struck.

Bodvar