[MD] The Greeks?

[Mary]

Hi Andre and Marsha,

> 
> On Jun 7, 2010, at 5:51 AM, Andre Broersen wrote:
> 
> > Mary to Andre (& Steve),
> >
> > It seeks to dominate the patterns valued by the level below.
> >
> > Andre:
> > I prefer the use of 'dominate' and 'guide' when and where
> appropriate, as Mr. Pirsig does.
> >
> > Mary:
> >
> > Once you have chosen to wield the analytical knife by dividing SQ
> into
> > subjects and objects your course is set and cannot be altered.
> >
> > Andre:
> > In the MOQ subjects are social and intellectual patterns of value,
> objects are inorganic and organic patterns of value.
> >
> > I do not quite follow what point you are trying to make.
> >
[Mary Replies] 
Yes, this is true as far as it goes, but what does it imply?  Once you've
accepted this premise, the next place it takes you is the me/not-me
dichotomy.  This is equally true and cannot be otherwise if you accept the
first.

> > Mary:
> > The MoQ is an intellectual idea.  Spawned in the mind of a man as
> steeped in
> > SOM as any;
> >
> > Andre:
> > I think you are suggesting that the MOQ is 'out of' SOM. You know
> that I do not agree with this argument.
> >
> > Mary:
> > but, as with all that is new, we must ask what it values and
> > decide whether that agrees in value with the level from which it
> sprang.
> >
> > Andre:
> > I'll let Mr. Pirsig describe the 'process':
> > 'At first the truths Phaedrus began to pursue were lateral truths;no
> longer the frontal truths of science, those toward which the discipline
> pointed, but the kind of truth you see laterally, out of the corner of
> your eye...you start looking laterally. That's a word he later used to
> describe a growth of knowledge that doesn't move like an arrow in
> flight, but expands sideways, like an arrow enlarging in
> flight...Lateral knowledge is knowledge that's from a wholly unexpected
> direction, ...Lateral truths point to the falseness of axioms and
> postulates underlying one's existing system of getting at truth. To all
> appearances he was just drifting...Drifting is what one does when
> looking at lateral truth. He couldn't follow any known method of
> procedure to uncover its cause because it was these methods and
> procedures that were screwed up in the first place. So he drifted'.
> (ZMM)
> >
> > Mary:
> > I would suggest that the MoQ is a new idea that would defeat SOM and
> take
> > off on purposes of its own.
> >
> > Andre:
> > And I suggest that the MOQ is Mr. Pirsig's 'root expansion of
> rationality'. That which he set out to do in ZMM and finished in LILA.
> ZMM is about DQ (if you like) and LILA is about SQ.
> >
[Mary Replies] 
The most significant statement in the above quote is this, "...Lateral
truths point to the falseness of axioms and postulates underlying one's
existing system of getting at truth."

> > And what does it(i.e this intellectual pattern called MOQ)value? It
> values Truth as a species of Good.
>
[Mary Replies] 
I hope, by that, you do not mean what it appears to mean on the surface.
That is, I sincerely hope you cannot define your terms.
 
> 
> 
> Andre,
> 
> In the James quote is truth capitalized because it comes at the
> beginning of a sentence or because it represents an absolute truth?
> 
> I consider static patterns of value to be truths, truths that are ever-
> changing, relative and impermanent.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
An excellent question, Marsha!

Best to you both,
Mary