[MD] until death do us part

[MarshaV]

Hi Ian,

I'm very happy for you and your wife.   It does my heart good 
to hear of a comfortable ever-after ending. 

Tipper and Al Gore, are a couple everyone thought were still much 
in love.  They were thought to be, especially after Bill Clinton, a 
model of the successful marriage.  They were married at twenty 
and twenty-one.  Supposedly this breakup was a surprise to most 
of their friends.  

Sorry about the pinhead remark.  I was trying to get someone 
beside the most wise John to respond.  I'm happy you did.  
I personally still do not think I would marry if I had it to do 
over again.  Marriage is too difficult.  The expectations that 
often accompany the marriage vows can sometimes ruin a 
good relationship.  -   Although it might be nice to have a wife 
to cook, clean and listen to my complaints.      

Marsha 





On Jun 7, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Ian Glendinning wrote:

> As a non-inspector of non-pinheads Marsha, I'll give you my
> non-intellectual story.
> 
> My wife and I have been married a little under 30 years. For the years
> between 10 and 25 we kinda developed an (mostly, but not entirely,
> unspoken) understanding that once the kids flew the nest we would
> probably split - like, what was the point staying together - christ,
> you know it ain't easy - too many snags etc.
> 
> But to our mutual surprise, we discovered that we actually liked each
> other's company, doing things we like doing together, even though
> there are also things we each like doing that the other wouldn't be
> seen dead - posting on MD for example. It's not that the formality of
> marriage provides anything other than some nominal stability for the
> kids involved - like, they need it even if they don't know it -
> therefore a valuable social (even biological) convention,  but that a
> life-long soul-mate has shared-values when all is said and done, and
> it's values that matter.
> 
> Regards
> Ian
> 
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:28 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> I like the story, but I like all your stories.
>> 
>> At first I thought a discussion concerning Tipper and Al a bit stupid too.
>> I agree; who cares?  But it seems that the statistics point, not to the men
>> buying themselves a new trophy wife, but to the women wanting the
>> divorce, 60 - 70 percent.   What's that about?  It is mostly the wives
>> breaking up this social institution?  "We've grown apart.",  the mommies
>> are saying as they toss the guys out.
>> 
>> The question today seems not to be 'Should a couple stay together for the kids?'
>> It's more like, 'Should a couple get married for any reason?'  Child support can
>> be gotten with a dna test.  Do today's kids care if their parents are married?
>> Is marriage 'just' a social habit that has outgrown it usefulness?
>> 
>> I wouldn't get married today, not at 20, 40 or 60.  No way!
>> 
>> I knew you would respond, John.  You actually seem to have some real social
>> concern.  Where do the rest of you inspectors of pinheads stand?  Do you see
>> any value in the social pattern of marriage?
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:07 PM, John Carl wrote:
>> 
>>> Well I'll take a non-intellectual stab at your question, Marsha.  One of my
>>> favorite old couples in literature was Albert Durham and Hallie Ryder from a
>>> book I can't rememer the name of right now, about a coyote named Brand X.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, they were childhood sweethearts who'd grown up next door to one
>>> another in a small town in Kansas, got married and had an only son who got
>>> killed in WWII.  So they pulled up stakes, Albert sold his painting
>>> business, and they moved to an old mine in Arizona with a spring where every
>>> evening, all the animals would come and gather, and that was pretty much
>>> their social life.
>>> 
>>> There was an old cabin on the claim, that appealed to Albert's spartan
>>> tastes, whereas Hallie prefered the neat little travel trailer with
>>> everything in its place, so they basically moved apart and avoided conflict
>>> and thus in their old age, reverted back to their childhood pattern of being
>>> next door neighbors.
>>> 
>>> Their story always appealed to me, resonated with something that seems
>>> right, that marriage doesn't have to follow any particular pattern to have
>>> value.  So Al and Tipper grew apart?  So what?  I think that's perfectly
>>> natural and right.  Nobody said we have to turn into carbon copies of each
>>> other for the rest our lives, just because we partner up for raising kids
>>> and supporting one another.  What I don't get is why they have to divorce.
>>> I mean, what's that about?  The only reason they'd need to divorce is cuz
>>> somebody wants to what?  Get remarried and have more kids?  Find true love?
>>> Silly thing for an old fart to be chasing at this stage of his life.  Poor
>>> Al.  Hollywood musta gone to his head.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John the anti-romantic
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:30 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> 
>>>> All the buzz on the radio, because of Tipper and Al Gore, is whether the
>>>> institution of marriage
>>>> is falling apart.   Because of the expanded longevity, can two people be
>>>> expected to commit
>>>> 'until death do us part'?  Fifty years with one man, or woman?  That is a
>>>> long time?  With the
>>>> divorce rate above 50%, should this social pattern survive, change,
>>>> dissolve?
>>>> 
>>>> What say you intellectuals about this social static pattern of value?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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