[MD] until death do us part

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Marsha,

Interesting topic.

What is a "successful" marriage? Does the fact that they are divorcing
alone mean that their marriage was not a success?

Best,
Steve



On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 6:28 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> I'm very happy for you and your wife.   It does my heart good
> to hear of a comfortable ever-after ending.
>
> Tipper and Al Gore, are a couple everyone thought were still much
> in love.  They were thought to be, especially after Bill Clinton, a
> model of the successful marriage.  They were married at twenty
> and twenty-one.  Supposedly this breakup was a surprise to most
> of their friends.
>
> Sorry about the pinhead remark.  I was trying to get someone
> beside the most wise John to respond.  I'm happy you did.
> I personally still do not think I would marry if I had it to do
> over again.  Marriage is too difficult.  The expectations that
> often accompany the marriage vows can sometimes ruin a
> good relationship.  -   Although it might be nice to have a wife
> to cook, clean and listen to my complaints.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>
>> As a non-inspector of non-pinheads Marsha, I'll give you my
>> non-intellectual story.
>>
>> My wife and I have been married a little under 30 years. For the years
>> between 10 and 25 we kinda developed an (mostly, but not entirely,
>> unspoken) understanding that once the kids flew the nest we would
>> probably split - like, what was the point staying together - christ,
>> you know it ain't easy - too many snags etc.
>>
>> But to our mutual surprise, we discovered that we actually liked each
>> other's company, doing things we like doing together, even though
>> there are also things we each like doing that the other wouldn't be
>> seen dead - posting on MD for example. It's not that the formality of
>> marriage provides anything other than some nominal stability for the
>> kids involved - like, they need it even if they don't know it -
>> therefore a valuable social (even biological) convention,  but that a
>> life-long soul-mate has shared-values when all is said and done, and
>> it's values that matter.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ian
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:28 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I like the story, but I like all your stories.
>>>
>>> At first I thought a discussion concerning Tipper and Al a bit stupid too.
>>> I agree; who cares?  But it seems that the statistics point, not to the men
>>> buying themselves a new trophy wife, but to the women wanting the
>>> divorce, 60 - 70 percent.   What's that about?  It is mostly the wives
>>> breaking up this social institution?  "We've grown apart.",  the mommies
>>> are saying as they toss the guys out.
>>>
>>> The question today seems not to be 'Should a couple stay together for the kids?'
>>> It's more like, 'Should a couple get married for any reason?'  Child support can
>>> be gotten with a dna test.  Do today's kids care if their parents are married?
>>> Is marriage 'just' a social habit that has outgrown it usefulness?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't get married today, not at 20, 40 or 60.  No way!
>>>
>>> I knew you would respond, John.  You actually seem to have some real social
>>> concern.  Where do the rest of you inspectors of pinheads stand?  Do you see
>>> any value in the social pattern of marriage?
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:07 PM, John Carl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well I'll take a non-intellectual stab at your question, Marsha.  One of my
>>>> favorite old couples in literature was Albert Durham and Hallie Ryder from a
>>>> book I can't rememer the name of right now, about a coyote named Brand X.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, they were childhood sweethearts who'd grown up next door to one
>>>> another in a small town in Kansas, got married and had an only son who got
>>>> killed in WWII.  So they pulled up stakes, Albert sold his painting
>>>> business, and they moved to an old mine in Arizona with a spring where every
>>>> evening, all the animals would come and gather, and that was pretty much
>>>> their social life.
>>>>
>>>> There was an old cabin on the claim, that appealed to Albert's spartan
>>>> tastes, whereas Hallie prefered the neat little travel trailer with
>>>> everything in its place, so they basically moved apart and avoided conflict
>>>> and thus in their old age, reverted back to their childhood pattern of being
>>>> next door neighbors.
>>>>
>>>> Their story always appealed to me, resonated with something that seems
>>>> right, that marriage doesn't have to follow any particular pattern to have
>>>> value.  So Al and Tipper grew apart?  So what?  I think that's perfectly
>>>> natural and right.  Nobody said we have to turn into carbon copies of each
>>>> other for the rest our lives, just because we partner up for raising kids
>>>> and supporting one another.  What I don't get is why they have to divorce.
>>>> I mean, what's that about?  The only reason they'd need to divorce is cuz
>>>> somebody wants to what?  Get remarried and have more kids?  Find true love?
>>>> Silly thing for an old fart to be chasing at this stage of his life.  Poor
>>>> Al.  Hollywood musta gone to his head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John the anti-romantic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:30 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>
>>>>> All the buzz on the radio, because of Tipper and Al Gore, is whether the
>>>>> institution of marriage
>>>>> is falling apart.   Because of the expanded longevity, can two people be
>>>>> expected to commit
>>>>> 'until death do us part'?  Fifty years with one man, or woman?  That is a
>>>>> long time?  With the
>>>>> divorce rate above 50%, should this social pattern survive, change,
>>>>> dissolve?
>>>>>
>>>>> What say you intellectuals about this social static pattern of value?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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