[MD] until death do us part

[Ian Glendinning]

Hmm,
I'm not sure that it is an ailing social pattern. I think it was
ailing for a while, but on the whole I'm pretty sure it's on the
increase. In actual behaviour as opposed to expressed opinions that is
- ought to be easy to check the stats - as opposed to generalizing
from a sample of one (Al and Tipper). Monogamous lifelong social
pattern that is, not formal instruments of church and state - not sure
what they have to do with marriage, except to keep system of law tidy
- a matter of democratic efficiency. I think arrangements "enforced"
by pieces of paper demanding effort have little to do with marriage ?

There are many evolutionary explanations for why it's positively
valuable, for the individuals, their social peers, offspring, genes,
memes, the lot ... to do with being able to reasonably predict each
other's behaviours, without wasting valuable time that could be spent
learning new values from new experiences, ... usually. If every
encounter with a potential sexual partner becomes a game of mutual
intentions and expectations, then there is no doubt plenty of
biological fun and variety to be had, but at the expense of useful
progress in the higher levels I would suggest.

Humans are already pretty good at reproduction and keeping offspring
alive to maturity .... it's the social-intellectual mess we need to
develop, not the bio-social - we have that cracked as a species. Some
social patterns just keep the biological ones intact, so we can focus
where we need to.

I think it is a big deal to understand why it's a good thing, but no
big deal to enforce guilt where relationships break down. That's life.
(Interesting to compare Bonobo's with Humans)

To cut a long story short ... Horse's words ...
"You only (need to) enter into contracts with people you don't trust.)

Regards
Ian

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:24 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> It's no big deal.  It's an ailing social pattern.  I'm
> trying to consider its value.  Is it an instrument of
> the church?  Is it an instrument of the state?  Where
> does its value lie?  Or maybe I'm trying to decide how
> one would determine if it, or any social pattern, actually
> has value.  For all its supposed importance maybe in
> actuality it is just a useless, blind ritual.  Or maybe without
> marriage, the entire social level would collapse into
> one mass biological orgy?
>
> I'm just wondering.  I thought maybe others might
> hint to a best approach.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Matt Kundert wrote:
>
>>
>> Sure--if one attaches enough personal importance to the
>> idea of close, spiritual intimacy and proximity (in whatever
>> sense one attaches to the word "spiritual"), then the
>> currently institutionalized form of monogamy known as
>> marriage might seem worth going to the courthouse for.
>>
>> And one usually finds out if one is one of these people
>> through experience.  You're alone, then not.  You're alone,
>> then not.  Which do you like better?  Is it worth that ugly
>> word, "compromise" (for either choice)?
>>
>> Maybe I'm just younger than everybody else, but I don't
>> see what the big deal is.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>>
>>> Let me simplify the question.  Does marriage have enough goodness to make its survival/improvement worth an effort?
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>
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