[MD] Reading & Comprehension

[Krimel]

[John]
No doubt randomness and probability are very useful intellectual tools.  But
using these tools to explain the cosmos and being seems to me as silly as
using a hammer for a screwdriver.  Sure, you might be able to get the screw
in the wood, but the wood would be so torn and useless that the
accomplishment would mean nothing.

[Krimel]
As far as I am concerned metaphysics in fact any form of conceptual scheming
is like looking for the Holy Grail of Swiss Army knives. I want the most
compact tool I can find to fix the most broken stuff I am likely to run
into. For my purposes the Leatherman Juice is probably the best but I carry
a Leatherman Squirt with pliers because it is so small. I think a Nikon
digital SLR like the D4,or D5000 would be great, a D90 the best possible but
I carry a Luminx point and shoot with Leica glass because it does 90% of
what the Nikons can with a fraction of the bulk. Once you get used to not
seeing through the view finder and the slight response delay, you can do
amazing things. It is 10 megapixels and with the 12X zoom you can take a
picture and read 12 point type from 50 feet. But I think a lot depends on
what kind of work you need to do.

[John]
And that's the issue I have with randomness.  It means nothing.  Ya gotta
have meaning in your metaphysical stance or what good does it do you?

[Krimel]
The meaning of "meaning"... Ah there's the rub. I am still clinging to
Shannon's "reduction in uncertainty". There may be something better but I
haven't found it yet.

[John]
That's the heart of my argument against the moronist position.  It doesn't
do any good to focus on randomness as ontology. What does that convey?  Just
any old random thing.  Why don't you just call it for what it is - Nihilism-
and be done?

[Krimel]
I don't have a problem with the term nihilism. I get all warm and fuzzy when
Ham calls me that. But that really isn't how I see it. Once you get away
from the idea that it is out there in the world or in God or in some
Absolute you learn to start looking for it on your own. I don't give a shit
about the meaning and purpose of the universe or God or the Absolute. Even
if they have it, that doesn't mean it's good for me. It could be Vonnegut's
Tralfamadorians jerking us around for millennia just to order parts for
their broken space ship. Fuck that. I have a three month old grandson who
smiles like an angel whenever I wipe the crap off of his little butt. I
don't need a higher purpose than that.

John:  
The similarity proves to me that being a genius can sure drive ya
crazy sometimes.  Thank randomness we're all spared that one, eh Krimel?

[Krimel]
That certainly is the impression Pirsig tries to leave. I tend to think it
is the other way around.

[John]
Well I don't see how the moronist view sees the MoQ as integrative, when
there is no such thing as "better", there's also no such thing as error.
 There's no such thing as thing.  The whole position completely fails the
pragmatic test of "betterness" when there is no betterness to be tested
against.

[Krimel]
Well as I have tried to show you it not only is ubiquitous. It's uses and
applications are ubiquitous. Randomness as the term is used in all these
different ways is not your old school randomness that bothers you. It is a
measure of uncertainty, (see above). Betterness is always just a matter of
how you view the odds.

[John]
It's a shame, really.  You're such a bright guy Krimel, and you write so
well. 

[Krimel]
Backatcha

[John]
But the idea of there not being a good is exactly the same as the SOM
contention that we live in a values-free universe and thus ojiaewni. r9q2-
]03grf iegal ksdkv epojvj
Is exactly equivalent to profundity.

[Krimel]
But "I" is in the universe. Good as you've got, is good as it gets.
Sounds like all you need is more time and monkeys.

[John]
PS:  about my navel, it depends on your unit of measurement

[Krimel]
Well if you are one of the AWGIs just keep looking, it is supposed to just
come to you in a flash of enlightenment. 

Try holding your breath. 

OOOOMMMMYGOD I fell asleep again...