[MD] The Greeks?

[Andre Broersen]

John to Bodvar (in reply to Ron):

I think from this we can conclude that it's far more appropriate and 
accurate then to say on every level of being, the higher toys with and 
is creative of the lower. Thus the top-down approach is superior to the 
idea that inorganic clumps randomly form life, that life just happens to 
create social patterns and out of social patterns, objective ideas 
magically appear out of a bunch of random words thrown around by social 
patterns

Andre:
Agree John, all this 'dominating lower level stuff' has its context. 
Sometimes it dominates, sometimes it guides and sometimes it plays with 
the toys given in a much more creative way. Bodvar's interpretation is 
very straight and almost deterministic! Not at all Mr. Pirsig's way.

The 'upper level' (we know that the upper is not really 'upper') has 
more freedom... that is all. And the 'upperest' level... Bodvar 
constrains by reducing it to only S/O capability... sad, sad, sad.

What Mr. Pirsig meant by 'the skillfill manipulation of symbols that 
have no particular corresponding ...'  is indeed all that needs to be 
said about the intellectual level. The rest is pure con[coc]tion on the 
part of those who created it.