[MD] The Quality/MOQ meta-metaphysics

[John Carl]

Score?

Andre 144,000
Bodvar 0.


On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Andre Broersen <andrebroersen at gmail.com>wrote:

> Bodvar to Andre:
>
> Andre previously:In the MOQ a culture is understood as a combination of
> social  andintellectual patterns of value.
>
> Bodvar:
>
>
> Who said so? It may have been said but it's nonsense, the Stone Agers were
> as intelligent as ourselves, but none of their cultures were intellectual.
>
> Andre:
> Ahum, ehhh I hate to say this but actually it was Mr. Pirsig... yep, and
> this is very troublesome to you isn't it Bodvar... the man has rescued you
> (going by your personal story)and you are blaming him and chastising him and
> correcting him and naming him nonsensical in the process of having done it!
>
> You, my friend, in true Aussie fashion, are an ungrateful bastard!
>
> And you, my friend, do not understand what Mr. Pirsig means!
>
> When, (did Mr. Pisig suggest) did intellectual patterns of value 'take
> over' and tried to 'run/govern/dominate society?: Armistice Day: November
> 11, 1918. (Australian Rememberance Day, the eleventh of the eleventh at
> eleven minutes past eleven... notice the ritualized expression of a low
> quality event??!!...to keep it alive in an attempt that 'we' may not repeat
> it.
>
> Your dismissal of Mr. Pirsig's designating of 'a culture is a combination
> of'... has little to do with what he meant by culture. Whether the
> intellectual level dominated or not is not the point. A culture, in whatever
> way it is expressing its relation to, and with, immediate experience ( i.e
> Quality) is relevant.
>
> Remember Mr. Pirsig saying that the (intellectual )search for meaning is a
> relatively recent fad? Well, you can look upon the intellectual level as
> trying to perform that feat as just that. But I think that the intellectual
> level is not enough developed for this undertaking. It is only a few
> thousand years old and put in charge only one hundred years ago. Place this
> against the evolutionary perspective and you'll see the (in) significance of
> this.
>
> Intellectual, patterned expressions arise out of social rituals and it is
> my humble opinion that those cultures that have lost the connection with
> this immediate experience have become relied upon 'postulated'
> (intellectual) givens ( the story of the West) as an intermediary to
> immediate experience. ( have you noticed how many pseudo psychological
> magazines have flooded the market, all of them containing variations on the
> same question:"Is it alright for me to feel this(or that)?
>
> Have you followed ZMM? Of course you have!
>
> Bodvar:
>
> Your "exasperated" tone begins to wear thin, You and Arlo don't (dare) face
> the argument that no level below intellect has any "regional" versions, why
> would intellect be an exception?
>
> Andre:
> Arlo is very, very capable of speaking for himself. What you are doing is
> suggesting that the French culture is the same as the American culture, the
> Inuit culture the same as the Chinese culture. What you do not recognize is
> that these cultures are different because their philosophical underpinnings
> are different. Their interpretation of 'the good' is different. Your SOM/SOL
> conviction does not allow you to recognize variation, difference of the same
> theme i.e different ways of responding to Quality i.e. immediate experience.
>
> Sad really.
>
> Bodvar:
>
> In the PT letter Pirsig affirms the SOL by "no use postulating an
> intellectual level before the Greeks" (= SOM in a Q context) and this
> was no polite gesture, ...
>
> Andre:
> He was annoyed. What is the meaning of 'the'? C'm on Bodvar! And your
> addition in the brackets is yours!
>
> Bodvar:
> ...but if THAT was the Upanishads era (as he claims) it is was an era of
> philosophy which is a search for objective truth (except religious
> philosophy which is a self-contradiction)
>
> Andre:
> You are repeating yourself, and your arguments Bodvar. It is getting late
> here and I am tired now. Will address this particular one in a next
> post...since when is truth 'objective'?
>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>