[MD] MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality

[David M]

Bo

In the UK where secularism and science dominate
I think we are more concerned that science has made
us too materialistic (SOM with the subject dropped)
and people like me want to understand science in
terms that do not rely on SOM. I suspect 
that elsewhere you may have an on-going battle with
religious authority and therefore dare not throw
away the SOM ladder? There is a danger of going backwards,
but I suspect that going forwards is a going beyond of SOM
at the intellectual level. Your views only represent a particular
strategy it seems.

DM


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <skutvik at online.no>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality


> On 16 Dec 2005 at 20:20, David M wrote:
> 
>> Bo
> 
>> I suggest we do jettison SOM
>> into the dustbin of history. 
> 
>> Lets say:
>> rocks are patterns
>> plants are patterns
>> money is a pattern
>> theory of gravity is a pattern
> 
>> we can all all thesae patterns SQ
>> lets call change and emergence DQ
> 
>> and put them together and let's call it MOQ.
> 
> David M. 
> I agree with your choice of patterns, the theory of gravity is a 4th 
> level pattern all right, but science and knowledge rests on the 
> subject/object divide so it can't be "jettisoned" without existence 
> dropping back to the third level (Dark Ages) and is why I am so 
> exasperated with those who think intellect can be reformed to 
> accommodate the MOQ. The S/O level must be kept clean and 
> clear. The MOQ is the Quality Meta-reality that contains all levels 
> and must necessarily be beyond - beyond intellect not the least.
> 
> Bo   
> 
> 
>> DM
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <skutvik at online.no>
>> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality
>> 
>> 
>> > Ian 
>> > 
>> > You spoke thus:   
>> > 
>> >> How could you possibly accuse Paul (or I) of working AGAINST
>> >> releasing intellect from anything. 
>> > 
>> > Releasing intellect? I spoke about him hindering the MOQ to tear
>> > loose from intellect's grip. Earlier you had written:
>> > 
>> >> > The lesson is to recognise the child-like simplicity, not to
>> >> > learn something more intellectual, in order to unederstand. 
>> > 
>> > And I agreed, it's my very point to see the MOQ as something 
>> > beyond the 4th level ("beyond intellect" sounds like giving up one's
>> > senses). And the SOL represents that child-like simplicity.       
>> > 
>> >> In fact we have been constatly suggesting
>> >> it's your very act of setting up intelect as SOMism / SOL that is
>> >> creating that prison.
>> > 
>> > It's not me suggesting anything  but written all over LILA and ZMM.
>> > It has been confirmed by Pirsig. See the next paragraph.     
>> > 
>> >> A fossilised pattern I called it. I couldn't be
>> >> working harder for the opposite if I tried.
>> > 
>> > The SOM is "fossilised" all right, but the quality of the S/O divide
>> > cannot be jettisoned without us slipping back to the dark ages.
>> > Therefore it is best encapsuled as the 4th level. The original
>> > definition of this level as "mind" where ideas pop up and disappear
>> > is rejected and in the same letter Pirsig said that the Greeks
>> > "developed intellect" and this confirms that intellect is the S/O.
>> > How can this slow and inevitable move in the SOL way pass by
>> > unnoticed?  
>> > 
>> > I chose to ignore your parting "greeting", you are not the kind to
>> > revert to foul language or hurt silence when arguments fail.    
>> > 
>> > Bo 
>> > 
>> > 
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> 
> 
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