[MD] MD Quality, DQ and SQ

[David M]

Hi Ian

I do not entirely object to this approach but care and
caution is required. My main problem is that much of
experience/life is never repeated and therefore not easy for
science to describe and not very useful for science to do so.
No SQ can be described or identified, there is more disorder
than order to be experienced. I take the emergence on new forms
to be characterised as the reduction of many possible actuals to
just one. For example life on this planet has gone down a carbon
based route rather than one of many other possibilities.

My other point would be that science has generally been about
describing the patterns of actual experience, i.e patterns that exist
in space-time. But quantum theory does seem to require the use
of patterns of possibles rather than actuals to describe what is able
to become actual. This opens up vast territories of the possible,
the imagined, that seem have an influence on what becomes actual,
that science now needs to explore, and I think calling these physical
is misleading. Mathematics via imagination and creativity
is of course crucially involved in this exploration of the
non-physical possible.

DM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] MD Quality, DQ and SQ


> David,
>
> In the philosophical sense of the word "materialist" it's the same thing.
> Wash your ears out :-) and listen to this ...
>
> My objection to the word materialist as a label is the "substantial"
> connotations in the "material" root of the word, which are wholly
> misleading to any debate since new-physics.
>
> That's all.
>
> Do all aspects of experience fit a physical description ?
> Probably not yet, but I don't see why they shouldn't.
> I suspend disbelief.
> (There is no metaphysics but physics, by my working definition of 
> physics.)
> Ian
>
> On 12/16/05, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ian
>>
>> I would love to understand how a physicalist is
>> not a materialist. Are all qualities physical?
>> Do all aspects of experience fit a physical description?
>>
>> DM
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
>> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 8:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] MD Quality, DQ and SQ
>>
>>
>> > Scott,
>> >
>> > You asked
>> > Do you still take Darwinism seriously as a basis to explain the origin 
>> > of
>> > consciousness and language?
>> >
>> > Yes I do, properly explained neo-Darwinsm (a la Dennett / Blackmore /
>> > Pinker ) that is.
>> >
>> > You also asked ...
>> > Do you, in fact, think that they originated? Do you think space and
>> > time are the background in which consciousness exists?
>> >
>> > Yes, in the sense I'm a physicalist - all components and explanations
>> > of consciousness exist in physics - but that's a million miles from
>> > materialism. Precious little material in physics. Which also isn't to
>> > say, that all physical components of consciousness always existed
>> > (they may have evolved too), doesn't preclude a more entangled
>> > explanation than mere "background", and also doesn't preclude
>> > explanatory components of consciousness not yet being recognised in
>> > physics (though Dennett would criticise me for that last opening to
>> > mystical physics.)
>> >
>> > Materialism needs to be fought OK, but with better physical as well as
>> > better philosophical explanations.
>> >
>> > Ian
>> > moq_discuss mailing list
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