[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[david buchanan]

Case said:
I agree with the part about no separate intelligences and no "supernatural" 
but rationality and logic are what take us out of the gooey emotional, 
feeling talk that spirituality ultimately leads to. rationality
should not surplant emotion but when the two work in Harmony... ah, there is 
that word again.

dmb says:
Gooey emotional feeling talk. Yea, that's exactly what I was complaining 
about when one of the posters defended his "faith" because of the emotional 
satisfaction it provides. I could go on all day about how destructive this 
can be for individuals and societies alike. In short, this sort of "faith" 
is a kind of backward regression into PRE-rational thinking and is 
completely different than the TRANS-rational thinking. Again following 
Wilber, confusing the former with the latter is called "the pre/trans 
fallacy" and there is quite a lot of it going around in our time. This 
confusion plays a role in just about every reactionary movement in recent 
history. Seen this way, fascism and fundamentalism and neo-paganism are all 
regressive steps backward. Seen this way, the mystical experience is not 
just a "feeling" but more like a realization, an epiphany, a great big "ah 
ha!" moment, a peak experience or something more along those lines.

And yes, something like harmony is the goal. I think the idea in Wilber's 
work and in the MOQ is that we need to integrate these various levels so 
that they aren't in conflict with one another. Or, when they are in 
conflict, we can at least have some reasonable way to distinquish which 
level of values is to take precedence.

And I have to say that this is basically the difference between traditional 
theism on the one hand and philosophical mysticism on the other. One is 
pre-rational while the other is post-rational. And since both are NOT 
rational, people get confused and think they are the same. This confusion is 
pretty much the definition of tragedy.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/