[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[DMB]
The conflict between various god metaphors is what's presently killing us.

[Steve]
I would beg to differ.  I would say economics is at the core of most of the conflicts in the world right now.  US: In Iraq for oil. Lebanon: Desperately poor country next door to richer Israel. Darfur/Sudan:  One of the poorest region in Africa.  Religion is only a partial aspect of these wars.

[Arlo]
What you are pointing out (and I agree) is the manipulation of religious power structures by political power structures, or better said, the manipulation of religious rhetoric to tie specific "religious salvation" for the masses into their support of social-political power of governments, corporations, economic interests, dictatorial interests, etc. This is precisely what CAN (and DOES) occur when "religion" is more about the static patterns of its particular myths and abandons any dynamic component. People conflate "supporting the church" with "being religious". One need only to look at US and World headlines from any news source to see this.

Economic-Political power entites have long manipulated "religion", from Kings who said they were "divine" to politicians who claim our nation is "God's Nation" and will collapse if we don't adhere to specific "codes" that give THEM power (the codes the pick never, if you notice, require any sacrifice or behavioral adjustment on THEIR part). 

[Steve]
I don't mind if theism is questioned, challenged, debated, but to me that sounded more like an attack or a call to arms.

[Arlo]
It is a call to arms, against static power institutions that have turned spirituality into a device to secure their own power of others. Why shouldn't we rage against that machine? It is gross hypocrisy to give those seeking enlightenment the very metaphors designed for that purpose, and then blind them with the language of subservience and obedience to their social power. In this way, the very thing that is supposed to be liberating becomes ensnaring.

Of course, where would politicians be without xenophobia to exploit. And we so willingly succomb... 

[Steve]
Also, I have said that religion is part of the mythos of most
societies.  Pirsig explained in ZMM that the mythos directly
influences the logos.  You can't really ignore theism without denying
a significant part of our mythos.  Do you think it is possible for
societies to exist without a mythos?  Or is theism simply a negative
part of our mythos?

[Arlo]
Obviously, I don't think "we" would exist without the "mythos". Pirsig had said, "[the] Mythos is the sum total of the early historic and prehistoric myths which preceded the
logos. The mythos includes not only the Greek myths but the Old Testament, the Vedic Hymns
and the early legends of all cultures which have contributed to our present world
understanding. The mythos-over-logos argument states that our rationality is shaped by
these legends, that our knowledge today is in relation to these legends as a tree is in
relation to the little shrub it once was." Obviously, we cannot deny that the Occidental Myths are part of our cultural surround."

He also states, "Religion isn’t invented by man. Men are invented by religion.
Men invent responses to Quality, and among these responses is an understanding of what
they themselves are. You know something and then the Quality stimulus hits and then you
try to define the Quality stimulus, but to define it all you’ve got to work with is
what you know. So your definition is made up of what you know. It’s an analogue to
what you already know. It has to be. It can’t be anything else."

Here I see exactly the "god in the image of man" that New Model Army is resisting, and what they mean when they say "i will bow to the...". It is looking past the static descriptions of "God" made through particular analogues of cultural significance, and towards the uncapturable Godhead/Quality/Buddha.