[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[Ant McWatt]

Stephen H stated August 8th:

>I don't see Pirsig as being anti-theistic as he equates his idea to
>ancient Hindu doctrine.

Ant McWatt commented August 8th:

That doesn't follow, Stephen.  Does that then mean Pirsig also supports the
caste system in the MOQ?

Stephen H replied August 8th:

No, it doesn't.  How exactly did you get that out of what I was saying?

Ant McWatt comments:

Stephen,

By using the same kind of logic and inference that you were using by 
concluding that Pirsig is theistic because the MOQ and Rg Veda share the 
idea that “The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of the 
universe”!!!!!

I don’t see anything in Chapter 30 of LILA or anywhere else in Pirsig’s 
writing that supports the idea that the “cosmic order” has its own 
determinate personality that human beings can have a personal relationship 
with.  As I mentioned before, have a look at the Copleston annotations at 
www.robertpirsig.org/Copleston.htm for clear confirmation that Pirsig is 
anti-theistic.

“The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term “God” is completely dropped 
as a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and Dynamic 
freedom.   The MOQ is not just atheistic in this regard.  It is 
anti-theistic.”  (p.208, Copleston Annotations)

“The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons of organized 
religion is seen by the MOQ as an evil act.”  (p.194, Copleston Annotations)

Having said that, Pirsig does support religion - to some extent - as shown 
by the following sentence stated earlier in the document:

“The MOQ supports religion but does not support many Christian traditions.”  
(p.180, Copleston Annotations)

Regarding the section of Chapter 30 that you referred to, if anything, 
Pirsig was just pointing out here that the Hindus also shared the MOQ’s 
recognition of the static and Dynamic aspects of Quality as fundamental:

“This identification of rta and aretê was enormously valuable, Phædrus 
thought, because it provided a huge historical panorama in which the 
fundamental conflict between static and Dynamic Quality had been worked out. 
  It answered the question of why aretê meant ritual.  Rta also meant 
ritual.  But unlike the Greeks, the Hindus in their many thousands of years 
of cultural evolution had paid enormous attention to the conflict between 
ritual and freedom.  Their resolution of this conflict in the Buddhist and 
Vedantist philosophies is one of the profound achievements of the human 
mind.”

Finally, if you really want to better understand the basis of Pirsig's moral 
framework, my I direct you towards Steve Hagen's "What the Buddha Taught" 
and "The Meeting of East & West" by F.S.C. Northrop (one of the books 
mentioned in ZMM).  In the latter text, Northrop also examines the 
historical background of the Catholic tradition in North America.

Best wishes,

Anthony.


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