[MD] Dreaming and death

[Squonkonguitar at aol.com]

Gav:

--- what about the experience of dreaming, where does
that  fit into the MOQ? my biological patterns and
inorganic patterns are in  bed.....my social patterns
and intellectual patterns are presumably not  very
active either....yet i have  experience....*meaningful*
experience.
....or is dreaming primarily a  social pattern, in that
it it is a symbolic language of sorts?
 
Mark:
Hello Gav, it seems to me that when asleep all your patterns are still  
evolving in response to DQ.
For example, you may, during sleep, evaluate your social aspect and come to  
some realisations about them.
Upon waking you may change your behaviour?
You may manipulate symbols in a novel way in response to DQ? That's  
intellectual values at work.
It seems to me there is no difference between stopping thinking in the  
moment while painting and sleeping: both acts drop sq and open up to  DQ.

Gav:
dreaming is an *experience* though. it is an
experience imbued  with *meaning*, perhaps even more so
than waking life. dreams are a message  (from where?)
to the dreamer. where does dreaming happen, where  is
dreamspace?
 
Mark:
American Indians view sleep as reality. And so it is: drop sq and you dream  
(open up to DQ)
Sleep is here and now.

Gav:
likewise, when we die what happens? where are we
going? my body  and me are not the same because i exist
without my body when i dream so death  would seem to be
the end of my material existence as gav, but  what
then?
 
Mark:
You've peaked in a sq sense and faded back to lower levels. In a DQ sense  
you're back where you began.

Gav:
fear of death is right up there on the 'fear list';
used for  hundreds of years to control the masses, now
as ever. What does the MOQ say  about death and what
happens during and after?
 
Mark:
Life is a struggle but it's going somewhere. And i think this is a good  
question because one could argue we all top ourselves and cut out the  suffering?
I think this is a great argument for the absolute neccessity of sq.
I'm not sure people are afraid of death Gav? People are afraid of  
attatchments and the unknown. And lies.

Gav:
what happens when you dream and also when you die are
pretty key  questions for me. i want my
religion/philosophy to give answers that  sound
right....and 'dunno' is admirably honest but doesn't
quite do  it.

Mark:
I have a feeling we all die many times each day Gav. We die when we create;  
we die when we give up. It sounds like a paradox but it may be our Wetsern  
rationality getting in the way?
But if we do die when we create, then what better way to die than to  
propogate DQ on to other people?
Suicide bombers are about as far from that as it is possable to get don't  
you think?
 
Love,
Mark