[MD] sq social - sq intellectual

Mon Aug 21 04:45:16 PDT 2006

Not so! 
They don't act alone, they are the extension of a culture, if the ideals of
the culture persist there will always be more terrorists. Kill the idea and
the terrorist has no reason to fight. 

In Lebanon the relative calm now in place has nothing whatever to do with
the number of "terrorists" killed. 
All commentators agree that no significant ground was made on either side
and that Hezbola's ability to mount attacks is undiminished, - yet we do
have a change. The same has been the case in Northern Ireland.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
> Sent: 21 August 2006 12:12
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] sq social - sq intellectual
> 
> 
> Quoting "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)" <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK>:
> 
> > Agreed, but the moral way to effect the change is different 
> from the moral
> > way to resist the violence.
> 
> How so? Until the biological terrorists are defeated, change 
> cannot take place.
> 
>  
> > > -----Original Message-----
> 
> > > Quoting "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)" <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK>:
> > > 
> > > > Unfortunatly here, the war on terror is a clash of societies. 
> > > > Two of Pirsig's giants are fighting and cultural patterns 
> > > on both sides are
> > > > sacrificing/devouring biological lives for their own ends. 
> > > > 
> > > > If an intellect wants to subordinate a cultural pattern it 
> > > should go right
> > > > ahead, but MOQ implies this should come from within the 
> > > society not without.
> > > > Pirsig never talks about cultural clashes or wars, so we 
> > > don't have clear
> > > > guidance.
> > >  
> > > Pirsig gives his view of cultural clashes in the 
> following statement:
> > > 
> > > "A culture that supports the dominance of social values over 
> > > biological values is
> > > an absolutely superior culture to one that does not, and a 
> > > culture that supports
> > > the dominance of intellectual values over social values is 
> > > absolutely superior to
> > > one that does not. It is immoral to speak against a people 
> > > because of the color of
> > > their skin, or any other genetic characteristic because these 
> > > are not changeable
> > > and don't matter anyway. But it is not immoral to speak 
> > > against a person because
> > > of his cultural characteristics if those cultural 
> > > characteristics are immoral.
> > > These are changeable and they do matter." (Lila, 24)
> > > 
> > > I would submit that Islamic Fascism does not support 
> > > dominance of social values
> > > over biological values, nor does Islam support dominance of 
> > > intellectual values
> > > over social values. Thus, by terms of the MOQ moral 
> > > hierarchy, Western cultures
> > > are morally superior to Islamic cultures. Islamic cultures 
> > > are changeable as 
> > > witness the effort by many in Iraq to establish a democracy 
> > > where the intellectual
> > > values of free speech and freedom of religion from state 
> > > interference would 
> > > guaranteed by law.
> > > 
> > > Platt
> > >  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
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