[MD] Ham on Esthesia

[Heather Perella]

Ham and Mark,

     
     [Ham]
> Cusa postulated his 'first principle' as the
> "not-other" because it
> expressed the nature of a God he could not otherwise
> describe.  He reasoned
> that an infinite source would be present in
> everything without being an
> other to itself.

     This second sentence Ham is running in circles. 
Essence is not in everything, and is not everything as
you have told me many times before.  Essence is
undifferentiated and thus, cannot be part of the many
or everything that is.  Essence is not a thing,
remember.


     [Ham]
> But what comes out of this causal chain is a theory
of
> the objective universe...
> Yet, you say that
> Pirsig does away with subject/object relations.  Is
> he, in your opinion, a
> subjectivist then? 

     I'm not going to clear this up and resolve this;
but I am seeing through Ham's subject/object lens. 
Ham postulates everything according to it being either
a subject or an object and it has to be one or the
other once awareness appears.  If you think about it
Ham, that's why you may stir such an interest around
here.  Your sticking to your guns, entrenched in a
perception/thesis that Pirsig tries to usurp, that
effort by Pirsig rubs off onto those that like
Quality, and therefore your thesis, Ham, side-by-side
with Pirsigs efforts - we have the perfect contrast
that Pirsig saw.  What I'm saying is - the more
competitive the game, the bigger the crowd, and the
better the players can become.

[Ham]
> Mark, you are throwing around labels here, not ideas
and
> concepts.  As a consequence, there is little I can
add that would 
> change your mind or provide new insight.

     Ham, when somebody provides different ideas and
different concepts in opposition to your thinking, in
your eyes they have no ideas and concepts to offer. 
Maybe to your thesis, no, somebody doesn't offer
anything, at times, but to the world, ideas abound,
even outside of your thesis, to any thesis, even
Pirsig's (to use your terminology from your thesis: 
ideas outside of a thesis would be potential ideas).
     So no matter where the dharmakaya light shines (a
culture, thesis, concept, etc...), and no matter how
tightly knit a thesis may be, if history/prehistory
has taught us anything, creativity still has its'
impact in the most seemingly stale environments, which
would include any thesis that may try to appear as
solid as a rock.  This is where I see Pirsig loosening
up a bit and noticing Dq in quality where at first
glance somebody might try to focus only on the SQ of
quality and try to define, rationalize, and logically
fixate everything, even if it is nothing.


SA

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