[MD] U.S. Values: the Jones

[Ant McWatt]

Platt,

Firstly, I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth as saying that a 
whole population of a particular country is "stupid".  I'd never say that 
though I might imply that certain people or groups (in a country) are less 
enlightened than others.  Moreover, both Arlo and myself have said on a 
number of occasions that we support a free market economy though, as usual, 
you just chose to ignore such inconvenient facts.

Like Arlo (and Pirsig), I see the US has having great potential.  Like Arlo 
(and Pirsig), I also see many of the unZen-like values held by you and many 
conservatives as holding it back.  So talking of keeping-up with Pirsig's 
opinions, check out the following from last month's interview with the 
(London) Observer (starting off with a particularly hilarious observation):

"When George Bush was asked who was the greatest philosopher in the world he 
said: Jesus Christ. Right there I thought: 'My God, we are going to need 
Jesus Christ if this guy gets elected!'"

"I have been a lifelong Democrat. I was born in the state of Hubert Humphrey 
who was, I believe, one of the most intelligent people ever to get into 
politics. My girlfriend lived across the street from him and I would see him 
from time to time. Speak to him. Like all ideas, though, the Democrat ideas 
need to be Dynamic. It's like Lila, it needs to be kept current."

"I admired them, too [the Beats]. It was Eisenhower and the usual Republican 
stuff was going on, taxes went down for the rich and up for the poor, all 
the public projects disappeared, and people were angry."

"You saw the [midterms] election result this morning? I think the world will 
be much happier place..."

(http://robertpirsig.org/Observer%20Interview.htm)

Too damn right.  It's about time you also got "with it" as well.

Best wishes,

Anthony.


Platt Holden posted in the following, December 3rd:

>[Ant to Marsha]
>This continual emphasis on material success (described by the NYT
>article) unfortunately shows that the concerns in ZMM are as relevant
>today as when it was first published in the mid-1970s.
>
>[Arlo]
>Yes, so true. One of the gross maladies, referred to in ZMM's passage
>about "vendors of substance", of this mercantilistic treatment of
>"value" is what Marx called "commodity fetishism", and Lukacs called
>"reification". From "Marx for a Post-Communist Era: On poverty,
>corruption and banality", Stefan Sullivan writes: "Drawn from Marx's
>concept of commodity fetishism developed in Das Kapital, it implied
>simply the lack of unity between an individual and the object he
>creates..."

Looks to me like Ant and Arlo haven't kept up with Pirsig's dynamic
change of opinion from ZMM to Lila regarding economics. In Lila he
rejects the socialist view of the Marxist cult and instead praises
the free market for its openness to DQ. Wouldn't it be nice if just
once in awhile we would hear from Ant and Arlo a vigorous defense of
individual freedom. Instead we get this constant criticism of the U.S.
as a stupid culture inhabited by stupid people who make stupid
decisions who would be a lot better off if they, the self-appointed
intellectual elite, were in charge ordaining what is and isn't of
value. From such attitudes totalitarians emerge.



.

_________________________________________________________________
It's Hotmail's 10th Birthday! Come and play Pass the Parcel 
http://www.msnpasstheparcel.com