[MD] Quantum Physics

[Heather Perella]

> Chin) I should have made it clear he concerned over
> the word Art as 
> viewed by Western culture.


   ok.


 [Chin] 
> ...The “us” that is not moral is the Ego. The ego is
in
> constant need to 
> affirm itself. When we live in Quality, when we are
> real, enlightened, 
> we go against the ego and the culture that builds
> this ego in us. The 
> media Ham pointed to earlier ‘Is’ a strong
> influence, as is religion, 
> as is the accepted intellectual sources he mentioned
> more recently, 
> Webster’s and Wikipedia. If Wikipedia says chaos is
> random, but it 
> means there still is a cause, most successful
> intellectuals who 
> managed good grades throughout their schooling years
> would find it 
> difficult to believe otherwise. Webster’s and
> Wikipedia are viewed as 
> intellectual sources, authority figur
> es. When we suspend the ego, we go against society
> and even 
> intellectual society, as we are not following the
> easy paths. We are 
> headed in a totally different direction -- against
> the crowd.

     Yes.  The current crowd.  This is why when I'm
quiet what I'm really doing is calming myself, this
ego.  I am calming this ego to the point where it's
not distracting.  Calming the dilemma.  Is the
dilemma, this ego gone?  No.  Where did it go?  It is
right here.  How have I avoided it?  By calming it. 
By not listening to it.  When this happens I hear
'something' else.  I am not listening to ego, so, I
hear 'something' when the ego is suspended, calmed. 
What is this I hear?  I don't know, but I do
experience it.

 
     [Chin]
> You do not have the Ego, or affirming the Ego, and
> once you pay the 
> price in both time and money to the Grade & Diploma
> system, you don’t 
> want someone coming along and telling you what
> intellectual means; you earned it.

     Yes.  Exactly.  Experiencing quiet, this is how I
interpret and use the language of MoQ, for the sake of
an MoQ community that is familiar with the language.  
     What is Nothing is Moral?  What is this first(?)
static latch?  Moral latching to nothing?  Nothing
latching to moral?  How can these latch to each other
when nothing is apart of this latch?  How can
'something' latch to nothing?  It doesn't.  So, what
is this split, if not the 'first' static latch?  Might
this realization be a realization that is not getting
stuck?  Code of art:  true self:  realizing itself,
thus, quality realizing itself.  Yet, the realization
is not sticking.  The realization is not attaching. 
Either quality is not seeing itself, or quality can't
see itself.  No-self is true self.  I've heard 'an eye
cannot see itself', and this is true.  This is
working.  This seems to fit nicely.  Suspend the ego,
might you elaborate on 'suspend the ego', please?


     [Chin]
   Pre-intellectual, intuitive intellectual, social
intellectual 
and scientific intellectual would all be intellectual.
I honestly 
don’t see how we can claim to be more intellectual
than the universe 
in which we are only a small part. If as Pirsig says,
particles and 
waves choose as opposed to being caused, this runs
through everything. 
We are physically interconnected to everything through
the cosmic 
dance of the universe. We are made of nothing special
that makes us 
the center of the universe. We are made up of the same
atoms that run 
through the cockroach and Saturn, and the same atoms
that run through us run through the cockroach and
Saturn. 

---------
   Yes, same atoms.  I am a cockroach.


  [Chin]
It is my belief, and a few others, George Bernard Shaw
comes 
first to mind, but Ralph Waldo Emerson commented on
their inherent 
intelligence as well. I have learned more from my
children than I ever 
thought of teaching them. If I may offer a little
advice, do not let 
the school system convince you the child has ADD or
ADHD; it’s just 
an excuse to medicate them so the class is easier to
control. IMHO, these and a few other developmental
disorders are simply another word for character. If
the teacher hasn’t enough imagination to keep them
interested, find another teacher, and/or school if
need be.

------------------
     Yes, interest.  The heart of quality, eh? 
Children already experience it, they don't know it,
but they live it.  What they are living they don't
want to lose, it's just how it is for them.  Then, as
many who grow-up in this culture, one day they grow-up
and feel as if they lost something.  They go
searchin', but it's this ego pullin' here and here and
over there, sayin' we've got the answer.  MoQ only
sticks for me, cause I'm enjoying this MoQ discuss
website.  If this wasn't here, I wouldn't be trying to
use this language.  I'd still be quiet, but without a
community, one that says, "You know what quality is."
in other words, one that says you already are it,
whatever that 'it' might be, or else we'd have to
constantly be lookin' outside ourselves.  That's the
ego you mentioned.  Zen is 'original mind'.  Quality
can't be spoken.  Well, then, if it can't be spoken,
then it must already be here.  When I am quiet, that
quiet is 'something' here I can control by choosing to
be quiet, finding the best position sitting or
geographically to position.  It is as fire.  Fire is
wild, free, and here on its' own accord.  Yet, I can
choose where to have the best fire to enjoy.


    [Chin] 
Grade & Diploma education. Western society does not 
understand “quiet.” They would have to accept those
heather 
Easterners spirituality over their Christianity. Don’t
think PhDs don’t go to church. 

     I'm all for independence.  I've spoken about this
on this MoQ discuss.  Ultimately, why a need for
government - cause people can't take care of
themselves.  Other people in other countries who can't
control themselves and want to kill to get their point
across, they are not finding the best position for
their fire.  They can't control their fire, their
quiet.  Heck they notice peace and think it can kill. 
Education system is just the same.  This culture needs
people ready made to fit the bill, to construct the
ego (the giant), and are not realizing that all the
wisdom in the world was realized by these people who
heard this true self.  Methods are rampant.  Yoga and
meditation are in style.  Yet, it is all for the home.
 Society has problems that these solvers can't fit the
bill.  The cultural immune system I believe Pirsig
called it.


  [Chin] 
If he must pander to the intellectuals, what makes him
think 
he can appeal to society by denying their God? --
denying their 
romantic notions? Would the knowledge of the
theologian and scientist 
not both be Quality if there are no moral
superiorities in the MoQ? 

     That's what independence is.  That's what ridding
the ego is.  Rid the superiorities.  Does this mean
rid experts or masters?  No, it means I can go to the
library and learn.  It means I can stay at home and
learn.  It means I can talk to somebody and learn
something.  This couldn't happen quickly.  The changes
would have to be established already, don't you think?
 The changes would need to be a choice.  And then
people walk towards the changes.  Our effort needs to
be made solid, allowed to go somewhere.


[Chin] 
Your exposure to Eastern culture helps you, but
speculation 
doesn’t cut it for those Bred & Raised Intellectuals
of the West. 

     Yeah, the dogma.  The accept the ego, the ideas
of others.  It's funny, but many, if not all, of the
so-called great thinkers of the West say something
along the lines of 'Know yourself' (Aristotle himself,
right)  Yet, all these great thinkers are those
advocating thinking for oneself, being free, and such.
 Yet, constraints exist in this current culture, and
yet, that's what all the great thinkers said, also. 
Pirsig called this the giant.  Pirsig said intellect
is to control giant.  Another word for control, in the
sense I mean it, is focus.  How do you define
speculation?


[Chin]
Yes, as I have stated a few times here, Nothingness is
the same 
as Quality. 

     So, in the West, must it be, a must, for Westerns
to study Zen, or eastern philosophy in order to shock
the Western intellect out of its' box.  Could the West
get out of its' box on its' own?  Sure, quiet is here
in wait, always present, but will the West recognize
quality, nothingness, and quiet on its' own.  Pirsig
learned from the East.  Pirsig knew about the
Amerindians.  Is the West a square peg, and the East
or Amerindians a circle peg?  Could the only fit, be
that the square peg would either have to be influenced
by Amerindians or East?  Or, maybe the West would have
to start over to know quality, nothingness, and quiet.
 Without comparisons, would the Western intellect ever
be able to know these without influence or without
starting over?


 
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