[MD] 1961 Paper - "Quality in Freshman Writing"

[ian glendinning]

Hi Dan,

This was the Wayne Booth piece I was referring to.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1351
(The link is to my blog post which has several other Booth links of
potential interest to Pirsig scholars.)

Ian


On 12/13/06, Dan Glover <daneglover at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone
>
> >From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >Subject: Re: [MD] 1961 Paper - "Quality in Freshman Writing"
> >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:07:56 -0600
> >
> >Hi Dan,
> >
> >I've certainly shared this stuff (and the Granger / Deweyian /
> >Pirsigian aesthetic references) with "Friends of Wisdom" ... who are
> >all about improving teaching in educational institutions.
>
> Hi Ian
>
> That's good. The meager experience I've had with higher education led me to
> believe that students were there to learn what the instructors were there to
> teach. Period. There seemed an unspoken assumption that if it were worth
> teaching they'd be teaching it already. I am glad things have changed.
>
> >
> >They liked it. We should not understimate how sympathetic the world is
> >to hearing this stuff in context. If we don't share, we'll never know.
> >(It was from that group that I got the Wayne Booth rhetorical teaching
> >link too - I can't remember whether I posted that link here ?
>
> It doesn't sound familar.
>
> >Fascinating.)
> >
> >"Knowing whether a writer cares" - the value of rhetoric.
> >
> >Ian
> >PS, I know from DMB's responses that almost everything I write is junk too
> >:-)
>
> Yeah, well don't feel too bad about that. I'm an obsessive compulsive
> orthodox hindu know-it-all poser. I suppose things could always be worse
> though. I could live in Cleveland.
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> >
> >On 12/12/06, Dan Glover <daneglover at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello everyone
> > >
> > > >From: "Michael Hamilton" <thethemichael at gmail.com>
> > > >Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > >To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [MD] 1961 Paper - "Quality in Freshman Writing"
> > > >Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 23:39:13 +0000
> > > >
> > > >First off, big thanks to Ian for getting hold of this, and thanks also
> > > >to Bob, if he's reading this, for supplying it!
> > >
> > > Hi Michael
> > >
> > > Thank you for bringing the matter up. It is a good paper. I enjoyed
> >reading
> > > it.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I'd been wondering if this piece would show some kind of different
> > > >perspective from ZMM and Lila - after all, this is the first thing
> > > >we've seen written by the "Phaedrus" of ZMM, before
> > > >insanity/enlightenment and the electrodes... but on first reading,
> > > >this doesn't seem to be the case. The crucial passage from ZMM about
> > > >the "many marvellous analogues" etc is there just the same. This whole
> > > >part of ZMM about teaching quality and the subsequent waves of
> > > >crystallisation was always the part that blew me away, so it's useful
> > > >to have it against in a slightly different and more self-contained
> > > >form.
> > >
> > > I've always been under the impression that the MOQ crystalized in Robert
> > > Pirsig's mind at the peyote meeting so it's interesting to read another
> > > perspective.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, I hadn't asked to see this paper with the intention of prying
> > > >into the development of Phaedrus's psyche or whatever... I asked to
> > > >see it because I'm now a university first-year, and struggling to
> > > >write. Academic essays, though. Not creative composition. But perhaps
> > > >the difference between the two isn't so great. If rotisserie assemply
> > > >is a form of sculpture, then writing an essay is easily a form of
> > > >creative composition. There's no single way of doing it, it's a craft.
> > >
> > > Like any worthwhile endeavor, to write well requires a great deal of
> >work. I
> > > think the key is to make it look easy. To do that, a writer has to
> >express
> > > something with every word. Otherwise the reader knows the writer just
> > > doesn't care. At least this reader feels that way.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I've written lots of essays before, but I've always been uneasy with
> > > >the process of writing, and it was getting more and more tortuous. To
> > > >be honest, even writing this involves annoying levels of
> > > >self-criticism, rather than being a simple, honest flow of
> > > >consciousness. This is a big gumption trap, no doubt about it. Or
> > > >perhaps it stems from a lack of gumption at the outset. Dunno.
> > >
> > > A spark of interest and some kindling of thought is a good start. I know
> > > from the start that most everything I write is trash. If anyone let that
> > > stop them, there would be no writers at all. Even the greatest writers
> >have
> > > written just horrible junk.
> > >
> > > Still, there's all kinds of gumption traps a person can fall into.
> >Reading
> > > has worked to spark my writings at those times.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >One thing I am sure of: education would be a much better experience
> > > >for everyone if all teachers (at any level) read this paper.
> > >
> > > Why not share it with them? Or is that something "that isn't done"?
> > >
> > > Don't be a stranger.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > moq_discuss mailing list
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